"ARISE SIR RAMSAY OF ROSEBUD!" A STORY OF A PIONEER OF ROSEBUD, VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA. :: FamilyTreeCircles.com Genealogy
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"ARISE SIR RAMSAY OF ROSEBUD!" A STORY OF A PIONEER OF ROSEBUD, VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA.

Journal by itellya

RAMSAY COUPER really was a knight and really was a pioneer of Rosebud but he didn't really have the title SIR RAMSAY OF ROSEBUD. I just made that up, with very good reason; Box Hill didn't deserve the glory of association with Sir Ramsay because his son,Guy,who was living at 64 Station St, Box Hill with Ramsay at the time of his enlistment for W.W.1, was not listed on the Shire of Nunawading roll of honour. Guy WAS listed on the Rosebud State School roll of honour and even though his name was listed simply as G.Couper, I was able to compile a reasonable biography for him. Rosebud honours its shared heroes!

William John Ferrier was one such shared hero. He was applauded throughout Australia for his bravery and determination displayed in rescues at the La Bella wreck at Warrnambool in November 1905 and despite my efforts to engage Queenscliff and Warrnambool in a joint commemoration of his heroic deeds 110 years later only Rosebud did so, chiefly through the support of Rosebud Primary School teacher, Mal Boag.

Ramsay Couper arrived at Rosebud some time between the assessments of 30-7-1892 and 21-7-1894. (The 1893-4 rate records are not included on the microfiche.) On the latter date he was on a 20 acre block with a building. Subsequent rate records show that Nora Couper had another 20 acre block and later Ramsay was assessed on two 20 acre lots with building while Nora was assessed on 16 acres, earlier occupied by John Freeman.

The early rate collector might have known something because his occupation was described as GENTLEMAN. This was a term used by retired businessmen such as Richard Watkin, owner of the Dromana Hotel meaning they no longer needed to work (earn a living.) No doubt the new-rich industrialists in England would have been tempted to try the title on, but would have well-known that doing so would ruin any chance of the missus rising through the ranks to achieve the elevated social status she craved. They'd never get an invite from the gentry.

To cut a long story short the land consolidated by Ramsay and Nora eventually became known as The Thicket and was the south half of the land bounded by First Avenue,and Eastbourne, Boneo and Pt. Nepean Rds, Rosebud. In about 1915, the farm was sold to Alf Rawlings and in 1927 subdivided as the Rosebud Park Estate whose innovative planning included curved streets such as Warranilla Avenue.If Box Hill residents did not notice the arrival of the family that's their fault, not mine. The Box Hill Historical Society has confirmed that Guy's name is not on the Shire of Nunawading Roll of Honour so Sir Ramsay of Box Hill or Sir Ramsay of Nunawading just wouldn't seem right.

Now I knew nothing of Ramsay being a knight but when I thought Guy's biography was complete, service and birth record,his sisters Evelyn and Phyllis, Evelyn marrying young Jamieson of Rosebud, Guy being the Worshipful Master of a lodge at Box Hill in the late 1940's, his death in 1973 and so on, I wondered if anything would turn up in a google search for GUY COUPER. That was when I discovered that Ramsay Couper was not only a knight but also a PLANTAGENET descendant.

BLOW ME DOWN WITH A FEATHER, GUY’S DAD WAS A KNIGHT WITH ROYAL BLOOD!
See top of page 106.
“Sir Ramsay George Henry Couper, 3rd Bt (U.K.), formerly Lieut., King’s Royal Rifle Corps, Afghan Medal with two clasps and Bronze Star, b. I Nov, 1855: m. 1884, Nora Emma S., daughter of Horatio Willson Scott of Hampstead ; and has issue 1f to 3f.
1f Guy Couper, b. 12 Mar. 1889.
2f. Sybil Couper.
3f. Evelyn Cooper

The Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal: The Mortimer-Percy Volume
https://books.google.com.au/books?isbn=0788418726
The Marquis of Ruvigny and Ranieval - 2013 - ‎History

The G.Couper entry in my ROSEBUD STATE SCHOOL ROLL OF HONOUR.
G.COUPER
How did I know that the name of this guy was GUY? Wait and see! The grantee of crown allotment 14 Wannaeue, bounded by today’s Eastbourne, Boneo and Pt Nepean Rds and First Avenue was Hugh Glass. By the first Kangerong Road District assessment of 1864, Hugh also owned c/a 16 between today’s Fifth Avenue and the line of Norm Clark Walk. Hugh was one of the wealthiest men in Victoria and had spent a fortune building his mansion at Flemington and surrounding it with gardens worthy of a king. He was a partner in the private railway to Essendon which failed at about this time and to add to his woes, scab in his HUGE flocks of sheep saw him heading for bankruptcy. After his overdose of medication, c/a 16 and 29 acres of c/a 14 fell into the ownership of creditors until about 1909.

Event: births Registration number 27100 / 1889
Family name: COUPER Given name(s) Guy
Place of event: WARBURTON, Australia
Parent 1's family name at birth SCOTT Parent 2's given name: Ramsay G H

Crown allotment 14 was divided into two lots of 29 acres which became Hindhope, extending south to include 50 First Avenue (Hindhope Villa) and lots of 20. 20 and 16 acres in the southern half fronting today’s Eastbourne Rd.

In 1900, Ramsey Couper was assessed on 20 acres and building, part c/a 14 Wannaeue and 20 acres, part c/a 14 Wannaeue, the latter being leased or recently bought from somebody whose name started with H. John Freeman had the 16 acre block, having recently bought it from somebody whose surname started with M. In 1910-11, Ramsey was assessed on 40 acres and Nora (his wife) on the 16 acre block. In about 1915, their southern half of c/a 14 was sold to Alf Rawlings and the Coupers moved to Box Hill which was a long way from Rosebud so William Jamieson’s son popped the question to his sweetheart, Evelyn Couper*. And that’s how I discovered the given name of G.Couper. The Couper farm acquired the name, “The Thicket” and in 1927 was subdivided as the Rosebud Park Estate, whose curved streets (such as Warranilla Avenue) were innovative at that time.

*- JAMIESON. — On November 16, at her father's residence, 350 Station-street. Box Hill, Evelyn, widow of George Edward Jamieson, dearly loved mother of William and Madge, loving sister-in-law of Margaret and Robert. Private Interment.
JAMIESON. — On November 16, At Box Hill, Evelyn, the dearly beloved second daughter of Ramsay and the late Nora Couper; loving sister of Sybil and Guy. (P.1, The Age, 17-11-1939.)

Peninsula pioneers such as the Jamiesons, Pidotos and Stennikens who plied the bay were often associated with Williamstown or Sandridge so it was no surprise that Evelyn and her beau had lived at Williamstown. Guy, who’d become a motor mechanic, was appointed as Evelyn’s executor. (P.12, The Age, 22-1-1940.)

Guy COUPER
Regimental number 11692
Place of birth Warburton Victoria
Religion Church of England
Occupation Motor mechanic
Address 64 Station Street, Box Hill, Victoria
Marital status Single
Age at embarkation 27
Next of kin Father, R G H Couper, 64 Station Street, Box Hill, Victoria
Enlistment date 24 February 1916
Rank on enlistment Motor Transport Driver
Unit name Supply Column 3, Army Service Corps 26
AWM Embarkation Roll number 25/29/1
Embarkation details Unit embarked from Melbourne, Victoria, on board HMAT A19 Afric on 5 June 1916
Rank from Nominal Roll Driver
Unit from Nominal Roll 3rd AAMTC
Fate Returned to Australia 9 July 1919

Guy dissolved his business partnership soon after enlisting. The witness was most likely his father, Ramsey Couper.


Notice is hereby given that the PARTNERSHIP heretofore subsisting between Gustaf Leonard Erickson and Guy Couper, carrying on business as speedometer, taximeter, motor accessories, watches and clock repairers, at 452 Bourke street, Melbourne under the style of firm of G.L.Erickson and Co . has been DISSOLVED as from the twenty first day of March, 1916. The said Gustaf Leonard Erickson will receive and pay all debts due to or owing by the said firm. The said Gustaf Leonard Erickson will carry on business at 452 Bourke street, Melbourne, in the name of G.L.Erickson and Co.
Dated this twenty first day of March 1916.
G.L.ERICKSON
G COUPER
Witness to Signatures.-R Couper. (P.5, Argus, 22-3-1916.)


Guy died in 1973.
Event: deaths Registration number 29280 / 1973
Family name: COUPER Given name(s) Guy
Place of event: Donvale, Australia
Parent 1's family name at birth SCOTT Parent 2's given name: COUPER Ramsay George Henry

BLOW ME DOWN WITH A FEATHER, GUY’S DAD WAS A KNIGHT WITH ROYAL BLOOD!
See top of page 106.
“Sir Ramsay George Henry Couper, 3rd Bt (U.K.), formerly Lieut., King’s Royal Rifle Corps, Afghan Medal with two clasps and Bronze Star, b. I Nov, 1855: m. 1884, Nora Emma S., daughter of Horatio Willson Scott of Hampstead ; and has issue 1f to 3f.
1f Guy Couper, b. 12 Mar. 1889.
2f. Sybil Couper.
3f. Evelyn Cooper (sic.)

POSTSCRIPT, 16-3-2019.
GUY COUPER BECAME THE FOURTH BARONET COUPER!
http://www.thepeerage.com/p27818.htm#i278174
Sir Ramsay George Henry Couper, 3rd Bt.1
M, #278171, b. 1 November 1855, d. 20 March 1949


Last Edited=18 Feb 2011
Sir Ramsay George Henry Couper, 3rd Bt. was born on 1 November 1855.1 He was the son of George Ebenezer Wilson Couper, 2nd Bt. and Caroline PenelopeEvery.2 He married Nora Emma Scott, daughter of Horatio Willson Scott, on 22 January 1884.1 He died on 20 March 1949 at age 93.1
He fought in the Afghan War between 1878 and 1880.1 He gained the rank of Lieutenant in the 60th Foot ).1 He succeeded as the 3rd Baronet Couper [U.K., 1841] on 5 March 1908.1
Children of Sir Ramsay George Henry Couper, 3rd Bt. and Nora Emma Scott
1. Sybil Couper2
2. Evelyn Couper2 d. 16 Nov 1939
3. Sir Guy Couper, 4th Bt.2 b. 12 Mar 1889, d. 1975

Nora Emma Scott1
F, #278173, d. 1 January 1925


Last Edited=5 Apr 2008
Nora Emma Scott was the daughter of Horatio Willson Scott.2 She married Sir Ramsay George Henry Couper, 3rd Bt., son of George Ebenezer WilsonCouper, 2nd Bt. and Caroline Penelope Every, on 22 January 1884.1 She died on 1 January 1925.1
From 22 January 1884, her married name became Couper.
Children of Nora Emma Scott and Sir Ramsay George Henry Couper, 3rd Bt.
1. Sybil Couper2
2. Evelyn Couper2 d. 16 Nov 1939
3. Sir Guy Couper, 4th Bt.2 b. 12 Mar 1889, d. 1975

Sir Guy Couper, 4th Bt.1
M, #278174, b. 12 March 1889, d. 1975*
Last Edited=18 Feb 2011
Sir Guy Couper, 4th Bt. was born on 12 March 1889.1 He was the son of Sir Ramsay George Henry Couper, 3rd Bt. and Nora Emma Scott.2 He died in 1975.1
He fought in the First World War between 1916 and 1918, with the Australian Imperial Forces.1 He succeeded as the 4th Baronet Couper [U.K., 1841] on 20 March 1949.1
Victorian BDM states 1973 which could be a typo.
Event: deaths Registration number 29280 / 1973
Family name: COUPER Given name(s) Guy
Place of event: Donvale, Australia
Parent 1's family name at birth SCOTT Parent 2's given name: COUPER Ramsay George Henry

Evelyn Couper1
F, #278176, d. 16 November 1939
George Edward Jamieson1
M, #278177, d. 4 July 1923
Last Edited=5 Apr 2008
George Edward Jamieson married Evelyn Couper, daughter of Sir Ramsay George Henry Couper, 3rd Bt. and Nora Emma Scott, in 1915.1 He died on 4 July 1923.1
Last Edited=18 Feb 2011
Evelyn Couper was the daughter of Sir Ramsay George Henry Couper, 3rd Bt. and Nora Emma Scott.2 She married George Edward Jamieson in 1915.1 She died on 16 November 1939, leaving issue.1
From 1915, her married name became Jamieson.1
Like Sybil, Guy obviously did not marry and as he did not have an heir, his cousin (Ramsay’s nephew) became the 5th Baronet Couper by virtue of his descent from Ramsay’s father, the 3rd Baronet. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Couper-268
Sir George Robert Cecil Couper Bt
Born 15 Oct 1898 [location unknown]
ANCESTORS
Son of James Robert Couper and Jessie (Kissock) Couper
James Robert Couper
Born 24 Jun 1863 [location unknown] Died 7 Jun 1917 [location unknown]
ANCESTORS
Son of George Ebenezer Wilson Couper KCSI CB and Caroline Penelope (Every) Couper
Brother of Ramsay George Henry Couper Bt, (etc)


THE MOVE FROM ROSEBUD.
I had assumed that Ramsay had sold his farm to Alf Rawlings and moved to Box Hill at about the time of Evelyn’s marriage but I needed to check. The last mention of Ramsay in the Shire of Flinders and Kangerong rate records was in the 1911-12 assessment. Ramsay (assessment number 902) was assessed on 40 acres and Nora (Ass. No. 903) on 16 acres but their names were crossed out and no rates had been paid. Alfred Rawlings was not assessed in that year or the next but in 1912 at assessment number 1138, John Johnson had been written and crossed out with Edward Dutton written as the person to be rated on ”The Thicket”, Rosebud , 57 acres, part c/a 14 Wannaeue. The assessment in the previous year was supposed to have been at 1168 but it wasn’t.
Ramsay was not aloof from his community at Rosebud or Box Hill, despite being a Baronet. This helped in getting a closer estimate of when the move took place. In March 1911, the retiring treasurer of the Mechanics’ Institute declined a nomination to the committee for the next year. “On being proposed for re-election, Mr Couper stated his inability to attend, and for that reason he wished not to stand.” https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/65846132
Ramsay had been on the vestry of St Peter’s Church of England at Box Hill in 1914 and had attended all 12 meetings. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/75092876
It is not known whether Sir Ramsay or Edward Dutton coined the name of The Thicket. An indication of the type of farming in which Ramsay was engaged during his 16 or so years spent at Rosebud is given by the competition he won at the Dromana Show in April 1911. Twelve Cobs Maize, R Couper. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/65846232

BOX HILL CEMETERY RECORDS.
http://www.australiancemeteries.com.au/vic/whitehorse/boxhillc_data.htm
Buried in bh25/4852 are Guy 1973 age 84; Nora 1925 spouse of Ramsay C?H.; Ramsay C?.H. 1949, spouse Nora and SYBIL, DIED 1976 AGED 90.
Doris Couper, listed before them and buried in another plot, was born in 1911 and died in 2000. She was not a child of Ramsay and Nora.
Event: births Registration number 30136 / 1911
Family name:COUPER Given name(s) Doris
Place of event: MEENIYAN, VIC, Australia
Parent 1's family name at birth IRELAND Parent 2's given name: Wm Lockhart Carlyle

Surnames: COUPER JAMIESON SCOTT.
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by itellya Profile | Research | Contact | Subscribe | Block this user
on 2019-03-14 10:28:20

Itellya is researching local history on the Mornington Peninsula and is willing to help family historians with information about the area between Somerville and Blairgowrie. He has extensive information about Henry Gomm of Somerville, Joseph Porta (Victoria's first bellows manufacturer) and Captain Adams of Rosebud.

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Comments

by itellya on 2019-03-15 13:36:32

Guy became the fourth Baronet Couper in 1949 following the death of Ramsay, the third Baronet. All members of the family are buried in the Box Hill cemetery except Evelyn Jamieson. Sybil died in 1976 aged 90. None of the pages re the Baronetcy etc. have any details about Sybil.

by itellya on 2019-03-15 22:48:01

See the details of the previous comment in the postscript at the end of the journal.

by itellya on 2019-03-17 23:24:04

WERE THE COUPERS OF WHAT BECAME THE THICKET AND THE RANDALLS OF HINDHOPE RELATED? COPY LINKS (BOLD TYPE) INTO YOUR SEARCH BAR.
SIR RAMSAY OR SIR RAMSEY?
Was it possible that Ramsay had been born in Australia? His death notice made no mention of his place of birth but his death record does. Not the new version but the summary that I clicked to obtain it which gives his place of birth as Octacamund*, India. I could not find a death record for Ramsay Couper until I omitted the given name.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ooty

Nora’s death notice gives her husband’s Christian name as Ramsay. It is interesting that her mother’s given name was recorded as Randell in her death record. Henry James Randall was a neighbour of the Coupers at Rosebud, between them and the beach road. Just coincidence? Perhaps not. Henry James Randall’s mother’s second given name was Scott and Nora’s maiden surname was Scott! (It obviously wouldn’t have been Randall*.) *Oswald Randall later took over Hindhope and his birth notice gives his mother’s maiden surname as WEBSTER.

Event: deaths Registration number 1397 / 1906
Family name: RANDALL Given name(s) Hy Jas
Place of event: Esdn, Australia
Mother's name <Unknown Family Name>, Margt Scott
Mother's family name at birth RANDALL ?????
Father's Name: <Unknown Family Name>, Randall Chas Edwd

*- Event: births Registration number 3254 / 1877
Family name: RANDALL Given name(s) Oswald Markham
Place of event: HOTHAM, Australia
Mother's name <Unknown Family Name>, Margaret Scott
Mother's family name at birth WEBSTER
Father's Name: <Unknown Family Name>, Charles Edward

Henry James Randall might have talked George Fountain, the last Mayor of North Melbourne into holidaying at Rosebud. https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/108830641

COUPER.—On March 20, at Fairbank Hospital, Ramsey G. H., of 350 Station street, Box Hill, beloved husband of the late Nora, and loved father of Sybil, Evelyn (Mrs Jamieson, deceased, and Guy, loved granddad of William and Madge Jamieson. (p.9, Argus, 22-3-1949.)

Event: deaths Registration number 2784 / 1949
Family name: COUPER Given name(s) Ramsey George Henry
Place of event: BOX HILL, Australia
Mother's name<Unknown Family Name>, Caroline Penelope
Mother's family name at birth UNKNOWN
Father's Name:<Unknown Family Name>, COUPER George Wilson

It could be assumed that the person who inserted the death notice and was the informant would have been Guy or Sybil, but if they were right about the "ey" ending, why would Nora's death notice in 1925 have called her husband Ramsay?

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