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Charles GILES and Lydia PINE married 11th August 1851 Stepney

Journal by mwg1

Im looking for some help with a brick wall that Im having trouble with. The known details I have at this stage are as follow;
Charles and Lydia married on 11th August 1851 in the Parish of Stepney in the County of Middlesex. Both are stated to be of full age, unmarried, residing in Stepney. Charles was a Stonemason and his father, Henry, a labourer. Lydias father, William, was a butcher.
They travelled to Australia aboard the Ellenborough with their two sons, Charles (2), and William (1)(died on voyage), arriving 31st October 1854.
Charles died 4th January 1886 aged 57 in Newcastle, NSW. His death certificate states that he was married at age 23, his parents are unknown, and that he had been in the colony 31 years.
Children of the marriage were Charles b 31/5/1852, William b 1853, Henry b 13/9/1855, Zipporah b 12/2/1858, Annie b 2/1/1860, William b 20/8/1861, Alfred b 1863, Stephen b 1866, Hannah b 1869, Emily b 1870, Selina b 1872, Amelia b 1874, Charlotte b 1876. I also have found in the 1851 and 1861 censuses, what I believe to be, an illegitimate child belonging to Lydia named Mark Capien Pine.
Ive been looking in the 1841 & 1851 censuses for a Charles of about the right age with a father Henry without success. The closest I have so far is a family in Middlesex with a Charles of the right age with a father James and mother Rebecca.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Mark

Surnames: GILES PINE
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by mwg1 Profile | Research | Contact | Subscribe | Block this user
on 2009-04-23 18:27:27

mwg1 , from Newcastle, NSW, Australia, has been a Family Tree Circles member since Jan 2009. is researching the following names: STEEL, WRIGHT, MILLER and 16 other(s).

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Comments

by bwhorwill on 2011-05-07 10:02:50

Sorry, I cannot find anything about the ancestors of Charles Giles maybe you have by now? However, I have seen the marriage of Lydia Pine to Charles on 11 August 1851 at St Thomas, Stepney in the parish records at the London Metropolitan Archives.

Going on to the subject of Mark Pine, I have bought the birth certificate for Mordecai Pesman Pine, born on 6 March 1949, the illegitimate child of Elizabeth Pine of 7 Victory Row, Stepney.

For some years this birth was a real mystery because Mordecai Pesman Pine then appears to cease to exist and Mark Pine appears. Maybe Elizabeths parents wanted their grandchild to have Jewish names and then she rebelled and insisted that her child should in future be called Mark Pine.

The 1851 Census show the following family:-
1851 HO107 1553 f816 STEPNEY, MILE END
Victory Row
Sophy Pine head wid 67 Nurse Whitechapel
Reyna Pine dau u 23 Needlewoman Limehouse
Elizabeth Pine dau u 22 Dressmaker Limehouse
Lydia Pine dau u 19 Dressmaker Limehouse
Mark Pine gson 2 Stepney, Middx

So we believe that Mark Capien Pine was the illegitimate child of Elizabeth Pine and not her sister, Lydia Giles, nee Pine.

You might be interested to know that Elizabeth Pine marries three times; John Fox, Daniel Petchel and then finally John Waters, who was my great great grandfather.

We cannot find the death of John Fox before Elizabeth marries Daniel Petchel and although Elizabeths second child is called Elizabeth Rebecca Fox, we do not know if she is the daughter of John Fox or Daniel Petchel!

Daniel Petchel dies two months after marrying Elizabeth and then Elizabeth Rebecca Fox is born twenty two days later!

by mwg1 on 2011-05-08 18:42:02

Thanks for the additional information.

I haven't spent a lot of time on Elizabeth, but had her marrying John Fox in late 1856 and children Charles 1864, Charlotte 1865, Emily 1867, & Frederick 1868.

Unfortunately this branch of my tree continues to be a real mystery for me. Private message me if you like to exchange details.

Mark

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