<< Previous - Next >>

Looking for any info on Richard PALMER

Journal by Fabulushus

Hi, I am looking for any information on Richard PALMER who married Elizabeth TITLEY in Sydney Australia. They had around 6 or 7 children one of them being William McLure PALMER. William moved to New Zealand, became a whaler, married a few times and had lots of children, 2 of them being my great great grandmothers Kooe and Kuii. Would appreciate any information on Richard as I pretty much have sufficient info from William to me but not sure how to find out anything from Richard and beyond.

Surnames: PALMER TITLEY
Viewed: 2063 times
by Fabulushus Profile | Research | Contact | Subscribe | Block this user
on 2010-05-01 04:44:30

Fabulushus has been a Family Tree Circles member since May 2010. is researching the following names: KIRIKINO, NIHONIHO, PANIORA and 2 other(s).

Do you know someone who can help? Share this:

Comments

by allycat on 2010-05-01 05:20:28

With a common and popular surname like PALMER it would pay to very carefully research this ancestor.

A browse of the NSW Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages online reveals a marriage in 1810 Richard PALMER and Elizabeth TETTEY or TETLEY in the St.Phillip's Church of England, Sydney NSW.

You may securely purchase their marriage certificate online for a small fee. Should give you more details, their parents names if you are lucky, witnesses may be relatives, occupation may be listed etc.

by allycat on 2010-05-01 05:32:09

You're in luck today! There are six family trees online at ]RootsWeb that have your ancestors. Richard PALMER born 1767 Flamstead, Hertfordshire, England and wife Elizabeth TITLEY born 1781 Clum, Shropshire, England.

EDITOR.

by smallishbonnie on 2011-04-01 02:49:12

Searching the Palmer side of the family from India, and this is what I have so far for my fmaily tree which is not finished as yet. Because there is quite a lot of family members missing from it, this is what I have so far:

Do you have any family members who came from England, and went to India at the turn of the century. Because my late grandmother Ada louise Georgina Palmer married to Daniel Speechly and they had 3 children, daughter Irene Elizabeth Freda and twin son's Leslie James and Victor Albert. I have been told many times that my grand mother has a Pedigree on the Palmers side of the family and so do we on the Speechly side of the family.

Many Thanks

by Fabulushus on 2011-04-02 17:55:22

Hi,
A far as I know both Elizabeth and Richard came from England, Richard from Hertfordshire and Elizabeth from Shropshire but thats all I know. I don't know who their parents were or any siblings?

Thanks

by macbrown on 2011-04-19 07:52:41

I tonight found some information on www.geni.com/family-tree. My husband is a descendent of Elizabeth and Richard also, through William's brother, Edward or Edwin Palmer. I believe that both Elizabeth and Richard were convicts to Australia. Elizabeth arrived in 1800 on the Nile and I think Richard arrived on the Minorca in 1801. I am in the process of trying to discover their crimes. It seems they were married 25th March 1910 in the largest on-time Military marriage in Australia.

by marscus on 2011-04-28 00:27:31

Richard was grand larceny the old bailey feb 15th 1791, in london sentenced to 7 years and transportation. transported/arrived feb 14th 1792 ship Pitt I
Elizabeth was convicted march 18th 1800, Lent Assizers for stealing, and I read elswhere clothing, also sentaned seven years, and transported/arrived on dec 14th 1801 Ship Nile I

Search the old bailey all records are on line now :)
Also I look for their parents etc. the trail seems to vanish here :(

I have lots more infor on Richard, Elizabeth and the offspring if wanted please email me. Marc.

by marscus on 2011-04-30 07:10:32

@macbrown, could yuou offer more info on the "largest on-time Military marriage in Australia" sounds interesting. Marc.

by marscus on 2011-05-06 08:27:01

@macbrown, married in 1910 makes richard 110 years older than when he arrived australia, Im sure you mean 1810!!

by macbrown on 2011-05-08 21:10:01

Oops yes -that was a mistake -should read 1810. Also, should read one-time wedding!It was a group military wedding-noted in history.rootsweb.ancestry.com. I haven't requested marriage certificate yet but I have found more than 1 date for their wedding -23rd March 1810, 25th Match 1810 and also October 1810. Perhaps the the couple in the Military wedding is not them-it would have made Richard Palmer a soldier in Australia at some time, I guess? Other info that I have read cites Richard as arriving Australia in 1801. I have found an Old Bailey trial that fits this Richard Palmer. He was also transported for 7 years for theft and grand larceny in a Middlesex trial in 1798- ref no. t17980704-34. I have also seen the trial you have noted. Are you sure you have the right person/trial/convict ship/time? I am new to this family research obsession and haven't yet managed to find specific information about convicts-which I am sure is available somewhere! Would love to see any other information you may have.

by gypsy50 on 2011-05-25 06:22:38

Hi all I was a Titley from Tasmania, my ancestors also came from England. My Titley was a William Titley born 1817 circa, in Birmingham. Came to Tasmania, occupation a Miller and married in 1842 at Hobart. I remember many years ago, maybe 20 or so, when I first started my research, I received a part of a family tree from a person in New Zealand and it had Richard Palmer marrying Elizabeth Titley. I think I have discarded it now though, due to relocating several times.
Don't know if that is of any help.

by Southern_lass on 2011-07-13 08:29:08

Richard Palmer was born in Flamstead, Hertfordshire, England approximately 1761. Little is known of his life prior to 1798 when he was a publican in Lea-Bridge. This was the year that Richard along with two accomplices Joseph With and John Innes stole from Mr. Charles Hammerton the proprietor of the Lea-Bridge Corn Mills the following:

80 Bushels Wheatmeal - Value - 20 Shillings
50 Bushels Flour - Value - 20 Shillings
9 Hemp Sacks - Value - 20 Shillings
1 Sack Cart - Value - 20 Shillings


Richard was convicted and sentenced at Middlesex on the 4th day of July 1798. Both Richard and one of the accomplices Joseph With received sentences of 7 years transportation for their part in the crime while John Innes was sentenced to 14 years. Richard sailed to Australia on the convict ship the Minorca

*********************************************************************

Elizabeth was one of four children born to William and Mary Titley. Elizabeth was born in Clun, Shropshire, (Welsh Border) on the 24th day of June 1781.When She was 18 yrs old Elizabeth along with an older woman Mary Arthur aged 47 yrs broke into a dwelling house belonging to Hannah Chester in Newcastle, Clum. They stole

1 Linen Apron - Value - 6d (sixpence)
1 Cotton Bed gown - Value 2/- (2 Shillings)
1 Pair Stays - Value - 5/- (5 Shillings)
2 Stiff Petticoats - Value - 4/- (4 Shillings)
1 Stiff Gown - Value - 10/- (10 Shillings)
Muslin Handkerchief - Value - 2/- (2 Shillings)

For her part in this Crime, Elizabeth was convicted and sentenced on the 18th day of March 1800 and received 7 years transportation. She sailed on the convict ship Nile from Spithead for Australia on the 21st Day of June 1801.

*********************************************************************

Fate threw the two together in the uncivilized lands of early Australia. He was a 38 yr old ex-publican and she was a young female from a small village. Just over a year after her arrival in Australia both Richard and Elizabeth became the parents of a son born on the 7th day of November 1802 who they named George.

Three more children followed:

Edwin - 04/03/1804,
Harriet - 15/05/1806 baptized 28/12/1806,
Henry - 09/02/1809.

Henry was born the year Richard and Elizabeth were given their freedom including 100 acres of land in Botany Bay. They were now legally allowed to marry. The assistant of NSW married them at 9.00 am on the 22 day of March 1810 in St Phillips Church in Sydney. A Mr. John Bedder and a Miss Mary Reed witnessed this signing their signatures with an X except Richard who was able to sign his name although he was also illiterate.

By now Richard was nearly 50 yrs old and Elizabeth was 29 yrs old. In the next 7 years 5 more children were born:

Elizabeth - 14/05/1811,
Jane - 02/07/1813,
William Mc Leur - 18/07/1815,
Thomas - 22/11/1818 who died 10 days later? 3/12/1818

At the time of obtaining his freedom, Richard was working for a baker named Mc Guire. Once again things looked like their lives were improving. They had their freedom, 7 healthy children and land but then fate saw Richard die on the 27th day of November 1819 followed by Elizabeth 3 months later on the 5th day of March 1820. March was influential in Elizabeths life. March 1800 saw her sentenced, March 1810 she got married, March 1820 her death.

by Southern_lass on 2011-07-13 08:34:33

I descend from their son William who married 3 times ............

by Fabulushus on 2011-07-13 09:32:56

Thanks so much for all this information. I too descend from William and his 2nd? wife Tiitii (they werent legally married but the equivalent these days would be a defacto marriage?

by Southern_lass on 2011-07-13 20:12:35

William married 3 times. Firstly to Titi (Tiiti/Titii) the daughter of Te Rahui and Te Maikaumai/Te Maukaimai according to Maori Custom who was a full blooded Ngati Mamoe Native. A daughter Elizabeth was born 18/08/1838 at Port Molyneux. Even though Williams mother Elizabeth died when William was 4 yrs old he named his first born after her. Other daughters born following Elizabeth (18/08/1838 - 29/08/1024) were:

Harriet - born in 1840 died in 1848,
Mere Kui Palmer - 10/05/1843 (1843-1920)
Eliza - 08/04/1845.

There were four other daughters who did not survive infancy.

Titi (Titii) apparently died by drowning in 1846 leaving William a widow. He remarried Hana Aukane (Haukawe) who it is presumed to have died in childbirth when daughter Anna (Hannah) was born 23/07/1847.

William at 33 yrs old and 15 yrs after his arrival saw him left with four motherless daughters to rear. Titi's mother - Te Rahui also lived in the village at Henley and helped to care for the girls.

Although a grandfather William now 38 yrs old married 17 yr old Ann Taimaraki Holmes on the 20th day of October 1853 at the Maori Village in Henley. This was his first marriage to be performed legally according to British law. Ann (10/12/1836 6/9/1886) was the daughter of James Holmes and Ann Taimairaki (Full Ngai Tahu). They had 15 children of which 10 lived to adulthood. The first born in 1854 was a son named William. Followed by William Jnrs (1854-1934) birth was Richard (29/01/1856), Harriet Jane (1856 - 1941), James Henry (22/06/1860), John Edwin (15/12/1861), George (20/22/1863), Ann Jane (1866), Beatrice Jane (15/08/1867), Harry (1870 1895) no issue, Charles (1873 1956) no issue, Frederick Henry (1875 1958) no issue and Amos (9/11/1877 4/11/1895). Sadly Richard born in 1856 died in infancy, as did two others.



Elizabeth who was 14 yrs old and illiterate married 23 yr old James Crane on the 24/12/1852 at the village in Henley. The Rev. Burns performed the marriage ceremony. James Harrold and R.A Filleul witnessed this. This couple was to have 13 children although many never survived through infancy. Elizabeth and James Crane's first son had been born the previous month prior to William and Ann Holmes wedding. James and Elizabeths marriage lasted 68 yrs before James died in 1910 at the ripe old age of 81 yrs. Elizabeth died at 86 yrs old - 29/08/1924.

Mere Kui was widowed 3 times. Her first marriage was to James Smith in 1864. There were two children to this marriage when she was widowed. Mere Kui had remarried by 1870 to William Bryant. There were 5 children to this marriage before William died in 1876. Her third marriage was to James Tanner a farm laborer who left County Down, Ireland circa 1870 settling in Henley South Otago. Mary Patterson (sister of James Tanner) and her husband Hugh arrived at the same time as James. Mere Kui and James were married 25/02/1885. They had 4 children although one didn't survive infancy. Elizabeth, ?, ?, ?. James died 02/01/1903 aged 59. Mary was a third time widow at the age of 60 yrs old and never re-married. She died in 1920 aged 77 yrs old.

Anna (Hannah) married Peter Campbell. They had 6 children. Anna died in 1940 at the age of 93 yrs old.
.
Even though William was working as a carpenter, boat builder, fisherman and farmer the sea and sailing remained his first love. He built a 6 tonne boat mostly out of kauri and in the 1860's when the gold rush started on the west coast of the South Island William loaded his boat with bricks to build a bakers oven and flour to sell to the miners. He left Taieri mouth and set sail north for Hokitika. At Cape Campbell he struck a strong Sou'westerly gale. The bricks had to go overboard while two of his hands had to work furiously baling water to prevent the boat from sinking. Down the west coast to Hokitika then south again William struck another strong sou'westerly wind and under jib he rounded the west cape and proceeded onto Riverton. There he picked up a prospecting party and headed back round the west cape to Jacksons Bay where they were going to try their luck gold mining. William sold his boat there, which had proved its seaworthiness in stormy seas around the South Island.


Ann was 50 yrs old when she died in 1886. William was 71 yrs old and again left with a young family to raise as the youngest was 9 yrs old. William had a large extended family to care for him and the young ones.

As he grew older he became stiff in body and couldn't move about freely and was cared for by his second eldest daughter Mere Kui. It was at her home beside the Taieri River that William passed away on the 27th day of March 1903 aged 88 yrs old. There is no stone to mark his grave in the cemetery located on Maori Kaik Road in Henley but a tree. The Maori graveyard (urupa) which includes the grave of John Hull is sited at the end of the 100 ha site which marks the Te Moua pa

by Southern_lass on 2011-07-13 20:20:06

this information is copyrighted in an unpublished book ........ please do not use this information for gain .............

by Fabulushus on 2011-07-14 04:39:13

Wow you have done a lot of research! thanks again. The only gain for me is the knowledge

by Southern_lass on 2011-07-14 07:56:15

Titi and Haukawe were sisters. An interesting read is the Preservation Manslaughter trial. Edwin Palmer was also apparently known by Edward ........ remembering that when John Jones took over the preservation Inlet Whaling Station after its owner George Bunn died in 1834 William Palmers older brother Edwin Palmer went into partnership with Jones. He was known as Captain Palmer aka Captain Edward Palmer. I have a transcript of notes re a converstion between the writer, Edwin Palmer and William Palmer. The following link has information which is not correct regarding William ........ http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-Cyc04Cycl-t1-body1-d1-d1-d1.html............ Another link which you may find interesting is http://www.aupress.ca/books/120170/ebook/03_Angela_Wanhalla_2010-Invisible_Sight.pdf ........... Angela Wanhalla did alot of research for her thesis which alot of family helped her out with regarding information ............ Not much help with Richard but we need to keep the records accurate so there is no confusion ....... Good luck with your search for info on richard ......

by marscus on 2011-12-10 19:41:22

Southern Lass, this information has thrown a spanner in the works!! The information is contrary to information in the book, Taonga: a Palmer Family Whakapapa, by Gwenda Bowman.

The RIchard information describes a completely different person :) oh the fun of discovery.

I would love to read the unpublished book you refer to, please let us know what it is when published.

Now confusion has set in and Im unsure of all my finding LOL, genealogy is fun :)

Register or Sign in to comment on this journal.