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Looking for descendants of Edward Brereton of Borras Hall 1642 - 1725

Query by MJL

I'm llooking for descendants of Edward Brereton of Borras ( sometimes called Boresham) born 1642 died 1725. I know he had one surviving son at his death and he was an MP. I am sure that this was my direct line of descent, and if so I have 3 or 4 generations to find to make the connection.

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by MJL Profile | Research | Contact | Subscribe | Block this user
on 2012-03-31 11:20:58

MJL , from North wales, has been a Family Tree Circles member since Apr 2011. is researching the following names: BRERETON.

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by frieda on 2013-07-09 08:36:30

I'm quite sure that this this is not the Family that you are connected to.

by MJL on 2013-07-09 11:38:22

How so?

by frieda on 2013-07-17 23:03:28

I think that the Edward Brereton that you want is Edward Brereton 1836 Cheshire lived in Isycoed died 1909?

by MJL on 2013-07-18 06:12:25

Yes I know about that one. He is my Dads grandfather, his parents were Thomas and Martha. No, I'm trying to find out where this
line came from. The thing that niggles with me is the connection of the family from borras withthe Roden family because the Edward that you mentioned had his children living at Rodens hall - my father's father aunts and uncles.

by frieda on 2013-07-18 13:21:52

I've read somewhere recently that the Breretons at Borras were the Malpas and Shocklach Breretons? If there is a connetion, which is likely then I think that it goes back quite a number of generations and several times removed.

by MJL on 2013-07-18 14:56:26

Yes, I don't have the tree to hand and it's quite a while since I looked but Edward Brereton of Borras was the son of William Brereton (son of Randal Brereton of Malpas) and Katherine Wylde of Borras. Edward married Jane Royden (or Roden) of pulford near Chester. Her grandparents lived at Roydens Hall the Roden family home. This is now known as Rodens Hall, the home of my grandfather. So maybe you can see why i find this so intetesting. Maybe just coincidence, but I'm not convinced. Rodens Hall and Borras hall are just about 2 miles apart.

by frieda on 2013-07-18 16:26:34

Where do you think that Edward fits in with your direct line, how far back would he be from your Grandfather?

by MJL on 2013-07-18 17:52:10

Oh I can't prove that he does, but Thomas, my great great grandfather was born 1803 I think. The first Edward that lived at Borras Hall (I think there were a few over the years)would be pre 1500. The last one that I mentioned in my journal was an MP was born 1642 and died in 1725. He had one surviving son, Humphrey. There have been several family trees published on the ancestors of Thomas. I'm not sure how correct they are. Its just this Roden connection going back years that I have a feeling is significant somehow, but I may never know

by MJL on 2013-07-18 19:35:39

I'm sorry but I should have said that Edward son of William and Katherine married Elizabeth Roden not Jane Roden

by frieda on 2013-07-19 02:12:58

Thomas 1803 was my Great, Great Grandfather, Hopley the son of Edward 1836 and Frances was my Grandfather, so your Grandfather Edward was the brother of Hopley, is that right? I've read that this direct line is traced back to Sir Randle of Malpas??? I haven't really delved that deeply yet, just seen it mentioned somewhere.

by MJL on 2013-07-19 10:58:22

No , Edward was my great grandfather, and father of Hopley, who was my grandfather. Was your father Frank, my Dads eldest brother?

by frieda on 2013-07-19 11:12:40

The only Edward that I can see that was married to a Roydon was in 1450 married Elspeth Roydon her Father was from Gresford?

by MJL on 2013-07-19 11:49:14

I have seen her down as from pulford but from what I can make out John Roden her father owned 2 or 3 places The Roden family home her grandparents is listed as Rodens Hall of Holt and Isycoed.

by frieda on 2013-07-19 13:46:57

Yes, our Father was Frank, the eldest of the six brothers.

by frieda on 2013-07-19 14:00:39

All that I can say is that I've not seen the Borras Brereton's connected elsewhere that I've researched with our direct line?

by MJL on 2013-07-22 08:36:56

Hi Again
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, weekends can be hectic here.
I was so surprised when you said that Hopley was your grandfather, and really very pleased when I realised I was talking to one of the family. Am I talking to Monica or Rita? It's really very sad, but I am not in contact with any of the Brereton family.
I have looked into the family tree over the past 2 years or so, and have got as far back as a marriage int the late 1600s of a Jonathon and Maria (Sandforde) Brereton in Acton Nantwich. It gets a bit unreliable before that as baptism records were not kept between 1630 ish and 1660 because of the English civil war. Acton church records were destroyed not long before that.
You said you were told that this family has a direct line to Sir Randle of Malpas. This is what I am trying to find out but I am running out of clues.

by frieda on 2013-07-22 08:56:59

Hi, I'm Monica, Rita at the moment is not as interested as she dislikes being on the Computer for very long having spent a large part of her working life on one! We recently met up with a few other Brereton@s at Brereton where we had never visited before, there is some interesting stuff in St, Oswald's there in connection with the family. I have 2 generations previous to Jonathan, but as you say I'm not certain if it is correct, it is not so reliable. Also some Brereton's that lived near us in Tilston, one of them was also a work colleague, with my research which I've passed on to them discovered that we are connected at Harthill. They live in Malpas and No-mans-heath. Also I was aware of bits of info. about the death of our Grandmother Esther, I recently looked her accident up in the Archives at Wrexham Museum, Newspaper Articles to be precise, which filled in a lot of gaps. I find all of this very interesting, as I knew so little of the family, and most of the people with the information have since died. I've only been dabbling myself for 2 years. Have you looked at the Tithe Maps, they give a lot of information for Harthill and the land that the Brereton's were tenants of, even saying what the land was used for, which is accessed online, yet the Isycoed Tithe Maps can only be accessed at Wrexham in person at the Archives in the Museum, a job for the Winter Months?

by MJL on 2013-07-22 09:39:15

Hi Monica
I meant to say last time that I am Jill, youngest daughter of Harry the fourth of the sons I believe. We have met very briefly a long time ago, but I don't expect that you would remember.
It's funny, but we drove through Tilston only last week and I mentioned your family to my husband, Jim. We were up in the Harthill area on Friday night, went for a drink at the Pheasant, Burwardsley. Thanks for the tip about the Tithe Maps.
My mother used to tell me a lot about 'granny Brereton', my eldest brother Roger was the only grandchild born when she died.
As you say, a lot of the information has gone with the passing of the older generation, I so regret not asking more questions when I had the chance, but I, like you and Rita, was very young when my Dad died.
I have been to Brereton to have a look, but never met up with any people there, and the church was closed.
I will have a look at those Tithe Maps, I was only saying on Friday I wish I knew where they lived at Harthill.
By the way, I found a record of another brother of Edwards' that I had not seen mentioned before

by MJL on 2013-07-22 11:03:54

Sorry never finished that before, touched 'submit' by accident.
As I was saying, Edward, dads grandad, had a younger brother called Samuel who went to live in America with some of his children. I would have to look back again at my notes to get the details, but there.must be some descendants of his still there.
I was in contact with someone in Australia who I think was descended from one of the other siblings of Edward

by frieda on 2013-07-22 13:40:46

I have joined a facebook page of the Breretons, although unfortunately not a lot of activity on there although almost 400 members, some Australians descended from Harthill and some Utah Americans also descended from Harthill they have pitched in occasionally, also some in Wisconsin USA from Harthill. I think a lot of Brereton's settled in Utah. At Harthill they lived at Woodend Farm and Dark Lane. The Bolesworth Estate owned most of the land according to the Tithe Maps it gave the owners as The Bolesworth Estate and the Breretons as tenants were William, Richard, Richard Junior and Mary Thomlinson, though they probably employed members of the family to work for them, it tells you what crops that they grew etc.,the Tithe Maps date between 1836 - 1840? I have read that the Borras Brereton's and our line can be traced back to Malpas but have not really delved any deeper, this is going as far back as the 15th/16th century? I do recall your name but it is a long time ago.

by MJL on 2013-07-22 14:56:23

Yes that's right, 1400s. Got stuck on the tree at the couple at Nantwich so thought I'd start from the top and work forwards and see what that would reveal. The first Edward of Borras was the grandson of the first Randle of Malpas, and you can follow that line to about 1600 but then records start to get sketchy. Borras Hall was bought by the Hanmer family at some point around then.

by frieda on 2013-07-22 17:38:28

I recall some of these Brereton's marrying women from the Hanmer family? I will have a look tomorrow and see what I've got. Where the Borras ones start and end.

by MJL on 2013-07-22 18:08:45

Yes I think that the first Edward's second marriage was to Dorothy Hanmer. But I also think there were others if I remember correctly, without looking back at what I found. I believe that Borras Hall is still owned by the Hanmer family but haven't checked. The last male Brereton of that line was Humphrey Brereton I think. From what I could work out, his family probably ended up somewhere around the London area as it seems that they had close family there.

by frieda on 2013-07-23 14:21:37

All that I can find is that Humphrey had a daughter Leonora, I think Humphrey died 1730? Borras Hall was owned by the Brereton's till 1789? Which Brereton I don't know and sold to Mr. Twigg for £40,000 then sold to Lord Kenyon for £24,000 along with Borras Head House, 1803. The earliest Brereton at Borras seems to be William living there in 1430.

by MJL on 2013-07-23 17:59:22

Yes, Humphrey was the only surviving son of Edward, died 1725. There is a record of Edwards will. Humphrey's mother was from Middlesex, and his daughter Leonora married a man from Knebworth.

by MJL on 2013-07-23 18:15:59

sorry, hadn't finished there, will have to stop using the phone to write these entries!
Don't know who Borras Hall passed to on the death of Humphrey, and yes of course that's right it was Lord Kenyon who bought it. I remember now, it's a long time since I read all this. I have a feeling there is a link between Lord Kenyon and the Hanmer family.
Yes William was the first one at Borras after marrying Kathryn Wylde of Borras, acquired by marriage I think. He was son of Randle of Malpas and had a son, Edward Brereton of Borras

by frieda on 2013-07-24 03:06:39

It is possible to get copies of Wills, Humphrey Brereton 12.2.1734 reference Prob. 11/663/309, it cost me about £6.50 last year for a Will of a Brereton. I applied to www.theprobateservice.gov.uk I have all my research on bits of paper, not organised at all!

by MJL on 2013-07-24 05:03:04

Me too, must make loads of work for myself,.but I think maybe I'm too old to change the habits of a lifetime!
I did wonder if Leonora inherited it all maybe she made a will, but I found out yesterday that pre about 1880 women never made wills as they weren't allowed to own anything. I mean, really!!
There is a lot of info on these Breretons in the history of Parliament. Probably nothing to do with our line in the end but its interesting stuff.

by MJL on 2013-07-24 05:26:39

I think that because he was a significant person in history, the will of Edward Brereton of Borras d. 1725 is in the archives somewhere, I downloaded it, I'm sure.

by frieda on 2013-07-24 13:32:24

I looked on the National Archives and searched Brereton Wills, there was a long list.

by MJL on 2013-07-24 15:47:28

They're quite difficult reading though aren't they? Bit lengthy!

by MJL on 2013-07-24 17:06:54

They're quite difficult reading though aren't they? Bit lengthy!

by frieda on 2013-07-25 09:09:24

I'm helping an American lady at the moment in Utah which is where some of the Harhill Breretons ended up. She came over here last month and tried to see as much as she could in connection with the Breretons.

by MJL on 2013-07-25 11:37:27

It's funny isn't it, but I was thinking only the other day how many people far and wide seem to have a connection with a place as tiny as Harthill.

by frieda on 2013-07-26 03:30:21

Yes, many of the couples had a lot of children, I suppose they all had to make a living and emigrating to Australia and America was an opportunity to do that, though probably frightening at the same time as they may never have seen their families again because of the distance? Their only contact perhaps was letter writing if they had received schooling?

by MJL on 2013-07-26 08:32:47

yes I can't believe how adventurous they were. but the one incidence that really touched me was when I found the record of the emigration of great grandfather Edwards youngest brother Samuel to buffalo New York to live with his children. His brother Edward was named as his contact in the UK. Bearing in mind they were both quite old at this point, and Edwards other siblings had gone to Australia I found it quite sad to realise that they would never see one another again. Samuel subsequently re married in Canada I think and later went to live in the Carolinas or somewhere forget now but have seen the census records. I found it so moving I wrote a journal about it at the time, but looking back I think it must have made me look an emotional wreck!! I was just so moved by it all.

by frieda on 2013-07-27 02:29:38

The lady that I've been helping is a descendant of Richard 1770, son of William and Mary ledsham this Richard then had a son, Richard 1801, he also had a son Richard 1835 who went to USA and died in Utah 1894. I was looking at the Census 1891 for Isycoed and noticed that Hopley and Esther were neighbours. Unfortunately it didn't actually give the addresses for all the households, Roden Hall was occupied by John Griffiths and family, Lower Hall by Edwin Rowe and family, I would think that the Tithe Maps would give the owners and tenants of these properties, well at least 1839-1852? I was told that the Brereton's left Higher Hall 1920???

by MJL on 2013-07-27 15:46:05

I was always aware that Esthers maiden name was Evans, Dad (and his brothers of course) had an uncle Ted Evans living in Bangor on Dee years ago. But I never knew where she came from until I saw the census records when I started doing this. I had ossibly been told but didn't take much notice, as you do when you're young. I didn't know either where Hopley had been born and grew up, though I did know the family was from Isycoyd, because Sid and Norman were still farming there. I didn't know when they left Higher Hall. Hopley was living at Eyton House when he died. I was just a baby then. Stuart lived there after him and his son, Brian, lives there still with his wife Julie. I have recently seen the original parish registers for Worthenbury, they had them all in the church one day. I looked at the entries for the batism of the six sons, it was quite nice to see them.
I think there was a Jackson at Rodens Hall after John Griffiths. Not sure.

by frieda on 2013-07-28 03:27:26

I only know the years of birth for our Father and your Father, also I've never seen a photo of Hopley? I don't think that I had ever met him?

by MJL on 2013-07-28 05:54:51

No neither have I, but I bet he looked like his sons they all have such a strong resemblance to one another. I believe he died in 1955 if memory serves me right, I was about 3 months old I think. As I say I have seen the original registers of baptism but didn't note the dates. I think Uncle Stuart was born 1929, but can't guarantee that's right. The order I think is Frank, Norman, Cyril (Sid), Harry, Doug & Stuart. I have seen the records on UKBMD. Will try to get hold of a photo. Haven't seen one of Esther either, but I believe she had red hair.

by MJL on 2013-07-28 06:26:30

I believe there was about 7 years between Doug and Stuart

by frieda on 2013-07-29 13:36:18

Hi Jill, I sent you a message in Messages on the top of this page, click on Inbox, I don't think that you've read the one that I sent you in May? Also I've sent you a private message to your e-mail address.

by MJL on 2013-07-29 17:14:53

Yes I've just replied to your message. No I don't think I saw one in May, will have a look now.

by janekeely on 2014-06-15 00:01:16

Hi Jill, I met you in Chester with my father Bazil Brereton from Australia in May. My name is Jane and I would like your email address please. Was great meeting you :)

by janekeely on 2014-06-15 00:02:55

My email is janekeely@hotmail.com

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