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Looking for Family of Thomas Samuel KING & Mary Ann BROWN of WINCHELSEA

Query by BobEvans

Dear Friends,
I am trying to find out the outcome of an relationship which began in court and finished....???
Details are as follows:

Mary Ann Brown, b. 1854, Winchelsea, Victoria, Australia (Reg No.6941)
d. 1930, ??????????, Victoria, Australia**
(Buried as Mary Ann Brown, Age 76, Geelong East Cemetery. Service date unknown.)

MARRIED: 1870, Winchelsea, Victoria, Australia, (Reg No.1005)

Thomas Samuel King, b. C1840, Tipperary, Ireland.
d. ????,

Children : Unknown
Lived : Unknown

Both deaths are not clear, others have stated that they both died in Hamilton, Victoria, Australia but I have not come to that conclusion and that in fact the person they refer to is another Samuel Thomas King. I have not been able to find any Thomas Samuel King's dying and would appreciate any assistance anyone can give.
Thank you, Bob

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by BobEvans Profile | Research | Contact | Subscribe | Block this user
on 2013-06-09 23:49:21

"The Old Guy"

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Comments

by tonkin on 2013-06-11 01:08:21

Another hard one Bob.

I found Mary Ann BROWN in the birth and marriage records, but no children or deaths for Mary and Thomas.

There was a Thomas Samuel Woods KING died in Hamilton in 1954. He was 92 years old, which means he was eight years old when he married Mary in 1870. Safe to line him out. This Thomas was born at Springs in Victoria in 1862 and married Elizabeth SCOTT in 1896.

It's strange how people can find certain events ... but not us. Makes me wonder where some people obtain their information from.

Cheers.

by BobEvans on 2013-06-11 01:42:07

Yeah your right, if you take the time to think through the information you come across their is a good chance that whatever you put down in ink will be accurate.
I can only think that they may have left the state OR maybe they even left the colony. I have checked NSW and found a few leads, but nothing concrete, checked SA however was unable to find anything of value. Maybe Tas??, keep you posted.
Nice to hear from you, and thank you for taking the time to respond.
Regards, Bob

by tonkin on 2013-06-12 04:11:56

Hi Bob.

Had a look at the births in Tasmania today but could find no children for Thomas and Mary. Another blank.

by steve74 on 2013-06-12 04:46:33
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by tonkin on 2013-06-12 05:04:39

Picked this Thomas Samuel KING up yesterday. He died in Sandhurst in 1890 aged 21 years. He was born in Newbridge in 1868. Parents were Thomas KING and Maria DIXON.
There was an Inquest and caused of death was given as drowning. May be the same one.

Someone may be looking for him.

by steve74 on 2013-06-12 05:13:09
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by steve74 on 2013-06-12 05:26:15
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by steve74 on 2013-06-12 05:44:46
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by janilye on 2013-06-12 09:05:38

The Argus reported when he appeared in court at Geelong in 1870 that Thomas Samuel King was about 30.
So he's born 1840, Tipperary, married 1870, probably Geelong, Victoria and probably on the day of the case or the next.
The Argus, Thursday 17 February 1870
At the Geelong Police Court yesterday, Thomas Samuel King, about 30 years of age, was charged with abducting a young woman named Mary Ann Brown from her residence at Inverleigh, against her parents' consent The prosecutrix deposed to being the daughter of Thomas Brown, residing with her parents at Mount Pollok, and that on the 8th December she went to live, with Mr. Meredith, at Inverleigh, and prisoner went there about two months afterwards. He subsequently wished her to marry him, and she consented. The following evening she parted from him at 11 o'clock, and on reaching her room was surprised to find prisoner there before her. After some conversation, in which she expressed her surprise at seeing him, he remained for about an hour, when something improper occurred. He left on the Monday following, and prosecutrix left two or three days after. She met prisoner at M'Kinnon's, Inverleigh. He called her out at night and asked why she followed him, and she stated she would not be left behind. In reply to the Bench, the prisoner stated he was willing to marry the girl that day, upon which the charge was withdrawn.

I think I'd be looking for children from November 1870

by BobEvans on 2013-06-12 17:41:13

Tonkin,
Thanks for checking that info for me, one less area to search.

by BobEvans on 2013-06-12 17:46:07

Steve74,
Thanks for the info Steve, but the Thomas that I am after was born 1840, in Ireland, and other than an indiscretion with a young girl, whom he married (with court assistance) there does not seem to be anything to point me to him.
If he killed himself in 1890c then he would be about 50 years of age.

by BobEvans on 2013-06-12 17:57:15

Janilye,
Thank you for your input, yes I found his "indiscretion" in the NLA, and inserted it into my family tree, it's a facinating look into community and legal values of the era.
Yes, I have looked for children of them, but to no avail, I thought that maybe HE might have done a "runner" and left her not long after their marriage but I cannot find any evidence of that either. I've looked for children of both names ie BROWN & WHITE, and found no births including "unknown" births.
I even looked last night to see if she remarried, (if he had done a runner)and did not find anything that I considered relevent.
Regards, Bob

by BobEvans on 2013-06-25 20:12:58

Have updated Journal,
the death of Mary Ann Brown is recorded in the Geelong Cemetery at the age of 76 Years (which lines up with her DOB)and in fact she is buried with her father. Her service date is 1930, but no other informatiopn is available.

by BobEvans on 2013-06-25 20:20:55

To Janilye,
I wish to retract my statement that infers that I looked for children against the names Brown & White, I was incorrect it should be Brown and King, my appologies. I pride myself on providing accurate information and on this occasion I was mistaken.
I welcome your input amongst those who offer great support and direction and whose knowledge has been a great help to me as I struggle with some of those "brick Walls" we come across.:)
Regards, Bob

by janilye on 2013-06-26 06:49:41

I would like to submit this birth to you by an Unknown King. Unfortunately the only likely one I have been able to find.

Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922
about Mary Elizabeth King
Name: Mary Elizabeth King
Father's Name: U King
Mother's Name: Mary Ann King
Birth Place: Heathcote, Victoria
Registration Year: 1871
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 16779

To my mind if Mary Ann Brown/King was born, married and died in Victoria, The odds are that she also gave birth in Victoria, if indeed they did have children, and I'll bet there was at least one.
Mr. King on the other hand did not seem to me to be a very honourable person for those times and I'd not be surprised if he didn't stick around after the marriage. The marriage proposal was, after all, made when he found himself in a corner.(I found his action of beating her home and waiting for her in her room a bit creepy!)
Since Mary Ann died using the name Brown rather than King I believe she came to the same conclusion. I doubt Mary Ann strayed too far from home. I think her father should have taken to young Mr. King with a horsewhip and probably the only reason he didn't was because the "deed' had already been done and Mary Ann needed a ring on her finger.
On the cemetery details you have there Bob, do you have her father's full name and d.o.d, or burial

by janilye on 2013-06-26 07:17:13

Never mind, I've found him. The convict, Thomas Brown drowned in 1871.
That's interesting.

by BobEvans on 2013-06-26 17:45:27

Thank you, Janilye
Considering the age variation and the fact she was very young I agree with you, and it seems I must have missed the birth, I have the "Digger" CD's, are they much different from the "Australian Birth Index"? do you get more details? or should I stick to the "Digger" series.
I have only found information about the location of the death of Thomas and of course Mary Ann, however I am interested to see that he drowned? Are you able to share how you found this? - via newspapers? (Maybe there is another way find information)
Kindest Regards, Bob

by janilye on 2013-06-26 19:38:00

Unfortunately Bob, unless you buy a certificate what you see is what you get.

Australia Death Index, 1787-1985
about Thomas Brown Name: Thomas Brown
Death Place: Victoria
Registration Year: 1871
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 7985
I found Thomas Brown's death in the Index and then went looking in the papers without any luck. So I then went looking through the trees and found four that stated he drowned in the Wannon River near Cavendish on the 21 December 1871.
The 'West Family Tree' I would say, have viewed a death certificate; they show [Cause of death - Asphysia from drowning.]
Unfortunately the 'West Tree' has no more details re- Mary Ann Brown and appear to be decendants of sybling Eliza Ann LUPSON, nee Brown 1860-1908.
I found Thomas Brown's arrival in Linc Tasmania
and marriage to Sarah Gladman in the index
Australia Marriage Index, 1788-1950
Name: Thomas Brown
Spouse Name: Sarah Gladman
Marriage Place: Victoria
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Year: 1854
Registration number: 108
The West tree states they were married at Christ Church, Geelong Victoria.
on the 10 January 1854.
Sarah Gladman was born Sarah Ann Gladman on the 19 July 1836 at Green Point, Tasmania, and baptised on the 28 January 1837 at St. Marks Church,by Archdeacon Hutchins.
Her father is given as (convict) William Charles Gladman 1802 1885
arrived on the vessel Commodore Hayes to VDL 1823, 7 Years for larceny.
married Rhoda Jane HURST 1815-1894 on the 29 April 1894 at Green Point, Hobart, Tasmania. Rhoda's father was convict William HURST 1794-1859. Both the Gladmans' are buried in Winchelsea Cemetery, Victoria.
I found the West Tree by Greg and Robyn West to be well researched, complete with citations and photographs.
Unfortunately they have no information on 'the Kings'

by janilye on 2013-06-26 20:24:36

You'll notice that Sarah Gladman is sister to Mary Hole, nee Gladman 1844-1922. Your great grandmother.

by BobEvans on 2013-06-26 23:05:58

Dear Janilye,
Yes you're right she is my G Grandmother's sister, and I am sure you would understand my interest in the "mystery" of her comings and goings. I will attempt to contact the West family and ask if they any further information, it would be nice to finish off this branch with a end note on what happened to Mary Ann's husband. I believe that he deserted her, however my assumptions are not relevant, so I will continue my search. It will be interesting to also find what happened to her child. Looks interesting.
Regards,Bob

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