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looking for Janet Forbes

Query by Carrie_Brown

1802 Janet FORBES is married to John CRERAR and has daughter Helen.
When and where did this couple marry?

Viewed: 1069 times
by Carrie_Brown Profile | Research | Contact | Subscribe | Block this user
on 2015-09-28 20:02:19

Carrie_Brown , from Australian living in New Zealand, has been a Family Tree Circles member since Feb 2014.

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by asheppard on 2015-09-29 21:29:58

Is this your Helen

Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
Name: Helen Crerar
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 7 Feb 1802
Baptism Place: Comrie,Perth,Scotland
Father: John Crerar
Mother: Janet Forbes
FHL Film Number: 1040075

another child

Name: Ann Crerar
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 18 Jun 1797
Baptism Place: Comrie,Perth,Scotland
Father: John Crerar
Mother: Forbis
FHL Film Number: 1040075

mothers name Forbis could be Forbes

more children

Name: William Crerar
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 22 Jul 1799
Baptism Place: Comrie,Perth,Scotland
Father: John Crerar
Mother: Janet Forbes
FHL Film Number: 1040075

Name: Alexander Crerar
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 19 Apr 1804
Baptism Place: Comrie,Perth,Scotland
Father: John Crerar
Mother: Janet Forbes
FHL Film Number: 1040075

Name: Christian Crerar
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 21 Sep 1806
Baptism Place: Comrie,Perth,Scotland
Father: John Crerar
Mother: Janet Forbis
FHL Film Number: 1040075

Try locating birth for Helen or one of the other children in Scotlands People site, it is pay to view but well worth the money, it may give you some clues as to John's occupation at the time, might be able to find him or Janet in 1841 Census.

There are quite a lot of Crerar's in Comrie Perth.

by familydetective on 2015-09-30 18:27:01

Marriage
Name Jo. Crearer
Spouse's Name Janet Forbes
Event Date 07 Dec 1787
Event Place Comrie,Perth,Scotland

Scotland, Births and Baptisms
Name Catharine Crearer
Gender Female
Christening Date 11 Oct 1789
Christening Place COMRIE,PERTH,SCOTLAND
Father's Name John Crearer
Mother's Name Janet Forbes

Scotland, Births and Baptisms
Name Alexander Crerar
Gender Male
Christening Date 19 Apr 1804
Christening Place COMRIE,PERTH,SCOTLAND
Father's Name John Crerar
Mother's Name Janet Forbes

by Carrie_Brown on 2015-09-30 19:04:53

What amazing responses to my query. Thank you.

My problem arises with Ann CRERAR's birth date of 1797 because she marries in 1808.
She marries Archibald McINTYRE in Muthill on 22nd March 1808.
Her parent's names are correct. Muthill is very close to Comrie where the marriage year is also recorded.
It's just that her birthdate is 10years out. Could there have been a mistake in her date of birth!

by asheppard on 2015-09-30 19:50:46

It may be an entirely different Ann Crerar as there are a lot of them in Comrie and surrounding areas.

From memory the minimum age at that time was 15/16 with parent consent, there is usually a notation on the marriage record "with father/parent consent". It might be worth finding the original copy of the marriage on Scotlands People.

These are the references I found for Ann & Archibald's marriage, it wasn't unusual for the married to be recorded in both bride & grooms parishes.

Name: Ann Crerar
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 22 Mar 1808
Marriage Place: Comrie,Perth,Scotland
Spouse: Archibald Mcintyre
FHL Film Number: 1040075

Name: Ann Crerar
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 1808
Marriage Place: Muthill,Perth,Scotland
Spouse: Archd. Mcintyre
FHL Film Number: 1040132


Do you have any documents that have John & Janet as parents, apart from baptism record 1797.

How did you verify parents as John Crerar & Janet Forbes, I'm not aware of any parents details being recorded on marriage or death before 1855 records.

When & where did Ann McIntyre nee Crerar die, do you have death certificate?

by asheppard on 2015-09-30 21:51:07

I found the marriage transcript.

Comrie Perthshire

1808 March 12th - Archibald McIntyre in the Parish and Ann Crerar in the parish of Muthill were listed and after orderly proclamation were married 22nd March.

Ann from Muthill, Archibald from Comrie.

and is this Ann's death?

Death of Ann McIntyre nee Crerar

Creiff Perthshire
4 Nov 1868
Ann McIntyre widow of Archibald McIntyre, of Bridgend Creiff, 85yrs, Bronchitis, Father: Finlay Crerar, Mother Isabella Greig, both deceased, Informant daughter Isabella McIntyre.

by Carrie_Brown on 2015-10-01 00:13:18

The name FINLAY concerns me because there hasn't been one (that I'm aware of)in our family, but I could be so wrong.

We have Archibald & Ann (Crerar) McIntyre's son(PETER's)Death Certifcate of 1874.
Peter Alexander McIntyre married a Jane BECK which explains 2nd son & 1st daughter's names.
Issue: Archibald, Richard, Peter, Martha, Annie, James, Henry, Ellen & John.

by asheppard on 2015-10-01 19:37:08

I think I found the right family, and Peter who married Jane/Jean Beck was plain Peter, his son is Peter Alexander b1852

Peter's Death

Australian Death Index
Name Peter McIntyre
Birth Year 1819
Age 55
Death Place Victoria
Father's Name Archibald
Mother's Name Ann Creroe
Registration Year 1874
Registration Place Victoria
Registration Number 4256

Peter was born in 1818, before the Archibald & Ann Crerar marriage of 1822.

================================================

Children of Peter McIntyre & Jane Beck, married Dumbartonshire 1847 as Jean Beck

Archibald 1848, Richard Beck 1850 & Peter Alexander 1852 all born Rutherglen Lanarkshire

Martha Beck 1858, Anne 1861, James 1863, Henry 1866, Ellen 1869 & John 1870 all born Victoria Australia.

==========================================

Children of Archibald & Ann Crerar (Peters Siblings) all born Comrie Perth

Daniel 1808, Isabel 1809, Margaret 1811, John 1813, Janet 1816, *Peter 1818, James 1822 & Helen 1824.

This marriage fits this family

Scotland, Select Marriages, 1561-1910
Name: Archibald Mcintyre
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 22 Mar 1808
Marriage Place: Comrie,Perth,Scotland
Spouse: Ann Crerar
FHL Film Number: 1040075

Death of Ann McIntyre nee Crerar 1868 in Creiff is possibly Peters mother

================================================

This is Peter & Jane in 1851 Scotland Census
Name: Peter Mcintyre
Age: 31
Estimated birth year: abt 1820
Relationship: Head
Spouse: Jane Mcintyre
Gender: Male
Where born: Comrie, perth
Parish Number: 644/2
Civil Parish: Gorbals
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 24 Crown St
Occupation: Master Baker (employing 3 Men)
Household Members:
Name Age
Peter Mcintyre 31, head
Jane Mcintyre 23, wife, Glasgow Lanark
Archd Mcintyre 3, son, Rutheytin, lanark (Rutherglen)
Richd Mcintyre 1, son, Glasgow Lanark
Henry Beek 18, apprentice baker, (possibly Jane's brother)
Margt Glancray 22, house servant

by asheppard on 2015-10-01 20:03:49

Ops forget the 1822 marriage ref, should read 22 March 1808, got my day & year round the wrong way.

There is also an 1851 & 1861 Census for Ann Crerar born Muthill Perth living with children, no sign of Archibald

1851 Scotland Census
Name: Ann Mcintyre
Age: 68
Estimated birth year: abt 1783
Relationship: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Muthill, perths
Parish Number: 341
Civil Parish: Comrie
Town: Comrie
County: Perthshire
Address: East Comrie
Occupation: Bread Seller
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Mcintyre 68, head
John Mcintyre 36, son, Born Comrie, Journeyman Joiner**
Hellen Mcintyre 26, daugh, Born Comrie, Weaver


** also went to Australia.

1861 Scotland Census
Name: Ann Mcintyre
Age: 78
Estimated birth year: abt 1783
Relationship: Mother
Gender: Female
Where born: Muthill, Perthshire
Registration Number: 478
Registration district: Dunipace
Civil Parish: Dunipace
County: Stirlingshire
Address: Risk
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Gillies 36, head, born Comrie (farmer 60 acres)
Janet Gillies 3, daugh,
Robena Gillies 7 Mo, daugh,
Ann Mcintyre 78, mother
Hellen Mcintyre 28, farm servant, born Comrie
James Gawloway 24, ploughman
Margreat Mcluckie 22, farm servant
Jane Jarret 17, farm servant

by Carrie_Brown on 2015-10-01 20:52:32

Once again I'm indebted to you for your research into our family.
You have confirmed much of the information I already have with some extra thoughts as to Ann Crerar's life after Archibald's death - which must have been prior to 1841.
I'm still struggling with FINLAY Crerar as Ann's father.
COMRIE seems the common place name for the McINTYRE family but MUTHILL was her home parish.
So I really wish to nail down her parents & possibly her Grandparents if possible.
I've tried, but have come to a "wall" at present.

by asheppard on 2015-10-02 18:57:25

Unfortunately this is where it becomes tricky unless you have a document with parents details it's all a bit of hit & miss.

Before 1855 it is difficult as parents were not recorded on marriages nor deaths, sometimes a child will have son/daugh of and father/mothers name & if your very very lucky parents occupation.

I'll have another look around for the Muthill Crerar's see if Finlay pops up some where.

by asheppard on 2015-10-02 19:43:23

Scotland, Select Marriages, 1561-1910

Name: Finla Crerar
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 4 Apr 1773
Marriage Place: Madderty,Perth,Scotland
Spouse: Isabel Greig
FHL Film Number: 1040128

by Carrie_Brown on 2015-10-02 22:54:11

I've checked with Ancestry.com & know of the listing for our McIntyres which is fine except that there is no proof required for entering the information about your family.
Anyone seems to be able to "adopt" someone whose details sound correct or look good in your Family Tree.
I'll keep searching!
Many thanks for your assistance & I hope your searches are successful.
Cheers, Carrie

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