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Marks from Wales

Query by TracySW

I am looking for any information on my great grandmother Annie Marks b.1865 Carmarthenshire, Wales. I believe she died before 1911 as William was a widower in the 1911 census, but I can't be certain. I am not sure if Annie was a pet name or her actual name.
Annie married William Robert EMERY b.1862 in Cardiff (or maybe wasn't married at all as I think Wm was still married to a previous wife) They had 4 children, Reginald, Douglas, Gertrude (died before 1911) and Cecil. All born in Bristol. I don't know if Annie was the mother of four four.

I have tried to obtain birth and death records but my money keeps being refunded as no information can be found.

I remember hearing my grandfather Reg saying his father had been married a few times and there were about 13 kids. Wm married Lucy Lawrence in 1912

Viewed: 779 times
by TracySW Profile | Research | Contact | Subscribe | Block this user
on 2012-03-24 06:11:57

If you could see your ancestors
All standing in a row,
Would you be proud of them or not,
Or don't you really know?
Some strange discoveries are made
in climbing family trees,
But some of them, you know,
Do not particulary please.
If you could see your ancestors
All standing in a row,
There may be some of them, perhaps,
You would not care to know.
But there's another question
Which requires a different view;
If you could meet your ancestors,
Would they be proud of YOU?

-Anon

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Comments

by SilverVixen on 2012-03-24 08:08:49

Was Annie married previously? I have found a marriage for Thomas Williams aged 24 and Annie Louisa Marks aged 20. Date of marriage 3 Aug 1884, St Mary, Cardiff, Glamorganshire. Grooms father William Williams, brides father John Marks

by TracySW on 2012-03-24 08:55:13

I have no idea, I guess its possible. The age is about right. Maybe thats why I haven't been able to find any thing about her.
Maybe Annie and William Emery run off to Bristol together and lived in sin. I know he married in Cardiff in 1880 to Catherine Davies. They never divorced apparently. (the mind boggles)

The Children's dob (Wm & Annie)
Reginald 13 Nov, 1899 (Bristol)
Douglas 1902 (Bristol)
Gertrude 1905 - 1905 (Bristol)
Cecil 1906 (Bristol)
I have tried to get documents to find if Annie was the mother of Douglas, Gertrude and Cecil,

(William had another son, Leonard, to his wife Catherine born the same year as Reginald, Leonard died WW1. There were two daughters as well Ethel b. 1883 in Cardiff and Winifred b.1891 in New York. William deserted them in the USA and went back to England leaving them in NY. They later returned to England. Catherine and her daughters lived in the household of William's father Robert)

The information I have came from a researcher from one of William's brother's descendant

by asheppard on 2012-03-24 21:51:19

What reference did you use for the GRO birth certificate orders for the children??

Is this the family in 1911 Census

1911 England Census about William Emery
Name: William Emery
Age in 1911: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation to Head: Boarder
Birth Place: Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
Civil parish: St John
County/Island: Herefordshire
Country: England
Street Address: 26 Bridge Street, Hereford
Marital Status: Widower
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Registration district: Hereford
Registration District Number: 337
Sub-registration district: Hereford City
ED, institution, or vessel: 05
Household schedule number: 108
Piece: 15704
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Lawrence 27
Lucy Lawrence 34
>>>>William Emery 48
>>>>Reginald Emery 11 born Bristol
>>>>Douglas Emery 9 Born Bristol
>>>>Cecil Emery 5 Born Bristol
Lily Cowley 16
George Clark 47

1901 Census

1901 England Census about William R Emery
Name: William R Emery
Age: 38
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Annie Emery
Gender: Male
Where born: Cardiff, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil parish: Bristol
Ecclesiastical parish: St Werburgh
Town: Bristol
County/Island: Gloucestershire
Country: England

Street Address: No.2 Ashley Hill

Occupation: App Electrician


Registration district: Bristol
Sub-registration district: Ashley
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 27
Piece: 2402
Folio: 49
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
William R Emery 38
Annie Emery 36
Reginald Emery 1


Possible Births for Douglas

Births Dec 1901 (>99%)
EMERY Douglas Bristol 6a 193


Does your grandfather Reginald have a middle name as I can't find anything that would correspond with the dates and place of birth listed on the 1901 or 1911 Census.

There is only one birth and death in 1905 that I can find for Gertrude but it is in Lincolnshire. One birth for Cecil Robert Emery Bristol, but date is 1900.

It looks like your best option would be to purchase Douglas' birth using the above references but without the parents names and see what you get, it will at least give you more information either to help further or to rule him out.

by TracySW on 2012-03-24 23:05:06

I just ordered Douglas' birth certificate, hopefully the right one.

Reg did not have a middle name. His birth was 13th November 1899 in Bristol, My grandmother always claimed he was Welsh (maybe he was) but she was always anti british for some unknown reason (her family line is steeped in british ancestry)
I believe he was in the Merchant Navy and jumped ship. He was a mechanic, I believe.
(The only shipping record I can find was in 1922 a 22 year old R. Emery arrived in Victoria on the Paloona 2.)

by asheppard on 2012-03-25 23:07:37

Can I ask how you came by the name of Annie Marks as Reginald's mother if you don't have a birth certificate, was there a reference in family papers.

Is this the shipping record you found?

Victoria, Australia, Assisted and Unassisted Passenger Lists, 18391923 about Mr R Emery
Name: Mr R Emery
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Age: 22
Arrival Date: 1 Oct 1922
Arrival Port: Melbourne, Australia
Departure Port: Wellington
Ship: Paloona
Nationality: British

It looks like the ship came from New Zealand and Mr R Emery is a passenger.

by TracySW on 2012-03-26 04:43:19

Annie Marks is the name of mother given on his marriage certificate.

Yes that looks like the same shipping record I found. I Have the actual document. I haven't been able to find any record UK to NZ,

by TracySW on 2012-03-26 05:01:29

On Reg's death certificate it states he was born in Bristol, England and had been in Australia 54 years which makes 1922 he arrived in Oz (he was 76 when he died 24th January 1976)

by asheppard on 2012-03-26 20:50:28

It looks like you will have to wait until you get Douglas' birth certificate, hopefully it will shed more light on the search.

It's strange that none of the other children can be found on the BMD, unless they were registered under a different surname. There are a couple of possibles under Williams in the right time frame.

Do you know when William Emery died.

by TracySW on 2012-03-27 04:12:03

I have his death as 1936 (no place) but I cannot recall where I got that date from, I cannot access my family tree data until I get a program that is mac friendly.

Hopefully douglas' cert will help. I haven't had a refund yet so it may have gone through this time...
Thanks for your help anyway.

I will let you know what the cert states

by TracySW on 2012-03-27 06:08:06

Just found this information on Family Search 1901 Census
name: William R Emery
event: Census
event date: 31 Mar 1901
gender: Male
age: 38
relationship to head of household: Head
birthplace: Cardiff, Glamorganshire
record type: Household
registration district: Bristol
sub-district: Ashley
ecclesiastical parish: Bristol St Werburgh
civil parish: Bristol
county: Gloucestershire

name: Annie Emery
event: Census
event date: 31 Mar 1901
gender: Female
age: 36
relationship to head of household: Wife
birthplace: Carmarthen, Carmarthenshire
record type: Household
registration district: Bristol
sub-district: Ashley
ecclesiastical parish: Bristol St Werburgh
civil parish: Bristol
county: Gloucestershire

name: Reginald Emery
event: Census
event date: 31 Mar 1901
gender: Male
age: 1
relationship to head of household: Son
birthplace: Bristol, Gloucestershire
record type: Household
registration district: Bristol
sub-district: Ashley
ecclesiastical parish: Bristol St Werburgh
civil parish: Bristol
county: Gloucestershire

by asheppard on 2012-03-27 19:34:52

Is this the possibly death you were looking at for William

Deaths Dec 1936 (>99%)
Emery William R 75 Bridgend 11a 752

right age, back in Glamorganshire, you would have to purchase the certificate to check the details.

by TracySW on 2012-03-28 05:02:36

Thank you again for you assistance. This pair have been the most toughest in my line to break.
This is probably William
When you say 'back in back in Glamorganshire' do you mean he was back there when he died?
When I get Douglas' record will look into this one,
I found a lot of children of William and Annie Emery with names familiar but pre dated Reginald. I know he said he was one of about 13 kids (3-4 mothers though) I wish I had have had the mind to ask more questions back when Reg was still alive.

by janilye on 2012-03-28 06:14:48

Sorry I came in late here, but was your Reg a fitter and turner by trade lived in Doveton, married Alma Joyce Rodger and died in Dandenong, Victoria

by TracySW on 2012-03-28 06:19:23

Yes thats them

by janilye on 2012-03-28 06:31:32

Sorry, I just had a read! It's Annie you're looking for.

by TracySW on 2012-03-28 06:32:43

Yes we got side tracked to William a bit, only because Annie is a puzzle

by TracySW on 2012-03-28 06:33:26

How did you know that information about Reg?

by janilye on 2012-03-28 06:45:48

I looked at the electoral rolls then bd&m

by TracySW on 2012-03-28 07:50:04

Ok cool thanks, I haven't looked at electoral rolls are they online?

by TracySW on 2012-04-11 04:26:46

I just received Reg's brother Douglas Emery's birth certificate in the mail and lo and behold his mother's name is Catherine Emery formerly Marks, Annie may have been a pet name. Hopefully this will break down the brickwalls.
Father is William Robert Emery. his occupation on the record is Commission Agent, does anyone know what that is.

by SilverVixen on 2012-04-11 04:47:53

a "Salesman who derives his income solely from commission on sales"

from List of Old Occupations on the following website

http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/c2.html

by VideoGenie on 2013-12-26 09:51:51

Hi TracySW
Not sure if your still looking, but my name is Robert Keith Emery 1 of 7 sons of Cecil Emery my personal email is eclserver@talktalk.net
Contact me if you like.
Keith

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