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No record of a birth :(

Query by Stormswift

Hi all, this is a long shot as I have hit a brick wall concerning my maternal Gt Grandfather. I have gathered quite a lot about Charles Bailey, I have his marriage cert, census records for 1901 and 1911. I have also acquired his WW1 service record along with his militia record from 1898/9. Unfortunately with all this I am still unable to a) pin down his birth index. somewhere between 1881-83, b) find his parents name to allow me to delve back further along this line.
I am therefore looking for anyone who may have any knowledge of him or how to go about researching him further.
Charles Bailey:

Marriage Cert -
married Eliza Phillips 24/12/1900 stated age 19, occ Cycle fitter, father William Deceased occ mechanical engineer. Witnesses George & Lena Sadler, don't recognise these as family although not ruled out that it could be a brother or sister.

1911 Census-
Charles & wife to include 5 children. Stated married 10 yrs, age 30 (1881), occ cycle worker, birthplace B'ham.

1901 Census-
Charles with wife and eldest child. Stated married, age 20 (1881), occ Cycle Fitter, birthplace Birmingham.

WW1 Service records. These are damaged by fire but from what I can make out he was born in warwickshire? ( not all there so educated guess)
Now another problem, he has two copies of most papers dated about a week apart. On 12/9/1914 his age is stated as 32 yrs and 213 (218,217) days
18/9/1914 his age is stated as 33 yrs and 2 months?
Both papers occ motor mechanic.
This throws up the possibility of an early 1882 birth.

His Militia record from 1899 doesn't add anything more except a couple of addresses, no next of kin unfortunately. His age is give as 17y2m on his attestation dated 22/8/1899

His children were.
Charles James Phillips
Cissie Bailey married George Beasley
Ada Bailey married George Frederick Green
William Bailey, as yet unsure of who he married
Leonard Bailey married Gladys Turner
Adelaide Bailey married Stanley Sharred

Any thoughts or help appreciated

Steve

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by Stormswift Profile | Research | Contact | Subscribe | Block this user
on 2012-03-19 10:42:17

Stormswift has been a Family Tree Circles member since Mar 2012.

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Comments

by asheppard on 2012-03-19 18:06:14

Haven't found anything on Charles Bailey as yet but did find this, could possibly be your witnesses to the marriage, looks like they were friends.

Marriages Sep 1900 (>99%)
Cheshire Leuna Violet Birmingham 6d 46
Sadler George Birmingham 6d 46

In 1901 Census George Sadler is a Brass Finisher he Leuna & daughter Lilian are living in Birmingham, Bishops Ryder, Warwickshire.

Does the marriage give you his address at the time, may give a clue as to where he was in the 1891 Census.

by Stormswift on 2012-03-20 08:20:31

Thx, I did look briefly for George Sadler but only in relation as to whether he may have married a 'Bailey' and so a possible sibling for Charles.

As to the marriage address, I'm more inclined to think it is an address of convenience for the church as Charles is noted as living at 38 New Bartholomew Street, while bride Eliza Phillips is next door at no. 40.
The closest I have for the 1891 census is in the Militia record. Dated 22/8/1899 at age 17y 2m his address is given as 11 Cromwell Street. It also asks for any previous address with the last 12 months. He has added 28 Weaman Street, though it is mis-spelt on the form as Weyman.
I was hoping that Weaman Street may have been his parents house but I think it is a shop if I remember right, so he would be living above in a flat possibly.
Thanks again for the George Sadler info, I'll keep a note of that it may be they were child friends ? so may lead to a Bailey household close by.

I do have 1 more bit of information a possible relative of Charles, but as it is word of mouth I haven't noted it here. As it may well be of no use and end up throwing someone of the trail. I haven't been able to link it as yet. If you would like to hear it to evaluate it yourself I'll post if requested.

Regards Steve

by asheppard on 2012-03-20 17:04:05

Have you seen this census? The names Ada and William caught my eye

1891 England Census about Charles Bailey
Name: Charles Bailey
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Betsey Bailey
Gender: Male
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical parish: Bishop Ryder
Town: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 53
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2393
Folio: 54
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
Betsey Bailey 52 born Sutton Coldfields Warickshire
Ada Bailey 17 born Bristol Gloucestershire
William Bailey 15
Charles Bailey 10
Henry Staples 55 Boarder

and there is this possible marriage as it ties in with Ada's birth

Marriages Mar 1872 (>99%)
>>>>>Bailey William Birmingham 6d 24
Hunt William Henry Birmingham 6d 24
>>>>>Wainwright Betsy Louisa Birmingham 6d 24
Walter Mary Ann Birmingham 6d 24

possible birth for Ada

Births Jun 1873 (>99%)
Bailey Ada Elizabeth Bristol 6a 22

These could be a wild goose chase but possibilities

by Stormswift on 2012-03-21 07:20:31

I have this census and it is the strongest contender I have but, I cannot find Betsey in the 1881 with William if indeed she did marry a William Bailey. So with just a place and date that is similar to what I have for Charles atm it can only remain a possibility.

The other interesting bit of the census is as you say Ada and William. I would think that William would be the name given to a first born son, though not certain to be. If this is the case then Betsy is a little old to have had William as a first son. Most likely others have grown and left home. Unless that is the marriage concerned. That would make her 33 at the time, so I would think it is then probably a 2nd marriage?

by Stormswift on 2012-03-21 07:56:43

I'll throw this into the mix though it may prove to be nothing.

A story told me by my mother says that when Charles wife died, I believe thats about 1923, he threw out all the children.

While researching Charles I have come across someone researching their line with a link to Charles. That link is Charles youngest child Adelaide. I was told by him that Adelaide went to live with her cousin Elsie Bailey when she was young. This ties in with the children being 'kicked' out.
Adelaide and Elsie also married brothers Adelaide married Stanley Sharrad, Elsie married Sidney Sharrad.
I've been told Elsie's parents are Joseph Bailey and Emily or Emma Evans.
To be cousins Joseph would have to be Charles brother so a possible sibling. I haven't been able to find a family containing a William as father with children Joseph and Charles. Of course 'cousin' could mean 1st, 2nd or possibly removed so its a bit up in air atm. There most probably must be a family connection there its just finding out what it is. Are Charles and Joseph brothers or cousins themselves?

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