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Ryan - Warialda, Inverell, Graman, Coolatai

Journal by jamboree

Hi everyone

I am looking for descendents of Michael Ryan and Ellen Butler (formerly Shufflebottom) who lived int he Warialda-Coolatai-Inverell area.

Regards
Jan Herivel

Surnames: BUTLER RYAN SHUFFLEBOTTOM
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by jamboree Profile | Research | Contact | Subscribe | Block this user
on 2008-11-01 20:37:52

jamboree , from Sydney Australia, has been a Family Tree Circles member since Oct 2008. is researching the following names: HERIVEL, STEVENS, MAIDENS and 11 other(s).

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Comments

by Glynne on 2009-04-01 10:23:19

Hi Jan, I'm looking at family of Bert Irwin (born in Warialda)and we have corresponded before but I lost touch with you until now. Bert's mother was Mary Jane Shufflebottom (which you told me was changed to Stevens --- and then her mother married Michael Ryan. John Irwin and Mary Jane's marriage reg has her surname as Ryan, but Bert's Birth reg says Mary Jane was formerly Stevens.
Now I've found Michael Ryan's will has Mary Jane Irwin mentioned in it (but not all the Shufflebottom children). His chidren born to Ellen Butler (ie Garrett and Francis) and also those born to his last wife Epreicene Mitchell (nee Harris) (ie Catherine and Andrew; and her first child James) are named in the will.
Glynne

by Fay_Frazer on 2009-10-13 00:03:24

Hi Jan and Glynne, have just discovered this site and read your messages. I have a copy of a book about John James shufflebotham and Ellen Butler.
The book titled "From Shufflebotham to Stevens"
was written by Gary Bryant. It contains info on children, marriages etc. Also quite a few photo copies. If you are interested in having a copy, I will try to organize it. You can send a private message to me with postal or email address.
If you only want a couple of details, just post a comment on here.
Best wishes Fay.

by jamboree on 2009-10-13 12:31:30

Hi Fay

I haven't seen Gary's book - there was another one produced in the 198's by a number of older family members and this was quite inaccurate in a lot of the information . I would be interested in seeing Gary's book though. My email address is jherivel@hotmail.com

Thanks
Jan

by Gemali on 2010-01-17 20:26:02

Hi Jan,

I'm researching the families of Michael Ryan and Epreciene Mitchell nee Harris. We have been in contact before but I lost touch with you until finding you here on this site recently.
I not sure what you have so far, but I have a substantial amount of information on these families but, in saying this, there are still a lot of gaps that need to be filled.
I would like to make contact again and go over some information that I feel you may possibly be able to shed some light.
My husband is the Great Grandson of Michael Ryan, and has regular contact with the Ryan's and the Moores; this may be of assistance to you?
I have also sent a private message with all my contact details.

Kind Regards
Cathy

by ryans on 2010-04-02 01:55:09

Hi all reading this post
I am researching the Ryan family, and some of these names I have in common with you. I am interested in Michael Ryan and am curious about why he married Ellen (this is the name I have) alias Butler, Shufflebottom, Stevens, Stevenson. He was 20 when he married Ellen in Armidale and she was 39ish with 9-10 children. Ellen's first husband was a convict. However I wasn't aware of another wife. As Ellen passed away when her children from her first marriage and the children she and Michael had together were still quite young, I guess marrying again for Michael was always an option. I have connections with Garrett, Michael's son with Ellen. If anyone has any info I would be pleased to chat.
Regards
Belinda

by jamboree on 2010-04-04 17:21:04

Hi Belinda

I have no idea why Michael married Ellen other than I wonder if he was the father of George born a few months before they married and who has no father listed on his birth certificate. Ellen's maiden name was Butler and her first husband was Shufflebottom so these are not aliases. Ellen changed her name to Stevens after James' death but we have never been able to understand why - unless she wanted a simpler name than Shufflebottom!

My connection to Ellen is via the Shufflebottom line.

Cheers
Jan

by ryans on 2010-04-06 07:14:49

by ryans on 2010-04-06 07:53:15

Hi Jan
Sorry about using the word alias's. I do know that Ellen did change her name for whatever reason, some of which you may be able to elaborate on.
Some of the information I have at hand ( unsubstantiated ) is as follows:
Ellen Butler marries John James Shufflebottom or Shufflebotham in 1841 Port Macquarie. They have 9=10 children the last being George??? John dies 1857 in April at Armidale. There is a George Stevens born 1819 who lived in the Armidale area near Bundara, who may be the father of young George born Feb 1859. He dies in June 1859, and Ellen marries Michael Ryan in July 1859. The baby George would have been around 6 months old.
I question the gap between husbands and the information of the parentage of young George Stevens. I see the childrens names vary from Stevens to Shufflebotham/Shufflebottom and not a lot on consistency on BDM. She is also registered as Stevens and Stevenson on BDM????
I was interested about the marriage to Epreience Mitchell mentioned in a post from Gemali, and so I researched the names and found a marriage to a Michael Ryan which bore two more children from a marriage in 1899, just four years after Ellen dies in 1895. These children are Katherine born 1900 and Andrew in 1899. Are we dealing with the same Michael Ryan?
I also found Epreience ( various spellings ) on a list of illegitimate children on Judy Websters website. Whether she is illegitimate or she has children that are I have not investigated futher. The question I raise is this the same woman and the same man I seek? And was there another marriage/liason with a man named Stevens that prompted Ellen to change her name to Stevens? I also wonder about the time line, and I did mention this in my very first post on this site. I have run out of room so I will post again. Belinda

by ryans on 2010-04-06 08:30:40

Hi again Jan and all reading,
Michael Ryan was 20 when he married Ellen Shufflebotham/Shufflebotton/Stevens/Stevenson. She was 39 when she married Michael in 1859, a widow with 9-10 children. Ellen marries Michael and has 3 sons Francis b1861, Garrett b1863, and William b1865. Ellen dies in 1895 age 75. Michael would have been 56 years old. On information, he then marries an Epreience Mitchell in 1899 and has a futher 2 children, Katherine or Catherine and Andrew; Michael would have been 60 and 61 or so when these last two children were born????? I ask the question was this a common thing then??? I don't have a DOB for Epreience so I have no idea how old she was and how many children she had before meeting Michael. Although I have found the same name on BDM as being married before to a Albert Mitchell in 1896 at Emmaville and he dies at Warialda in 1896 where I must presume that she then met Michael. I am endeavoring to unlock the mystery as to this man's life who appears to have been quite a character in the history of Warialda. Does anyone have more information to support the dilemma of his son Garret's death and his assets that after his death reverted back to Michael's will? ( Garrett died in 1912, I would presume without a will from blood poisoning.) And does anyone know what brought Michael to Australia from Ireland? As we are all wanting to know something I am happy to share whatever I have found, being fact or fiction. I am more than pleased to be corrected on my theories.
Regards
Belinda

by jamboree on 2010-04-07 05:48:28

Hi Belinda

I have not been able to find out why Ellen changed her name to Stevens, the Stevenson I feel is a clerical error as it only seems to appear once that I am aware of. The difference between Shufflebottom/Schufflebotham is a result of the literacy of the parties concerned eg I have a lot of Medhurst's in my line and at once stage this was written as Meadows which was probably how it sounded to the person writing it down. I assume you are new to family history as variant spellings are common as you research families and after 20 years I don't tend to read too much into this.

Epreicine was born about 1872 which only makes her in her late 30's when she has the children to Michael Ryan. Men fathered children into their 60's and 70's then and it still happens today so I don't find anything unusual in that. She appears to be the same person who married Albert Mitchell.

I only have two children resulting from the marriage of Michael and Ellen - Francis and Garrett. I don't think that William belongs to this family - I know some trees do list him but I haven't been able to find the proof that he is the son of Michael and Ellen.

George is not James Shufflebottom's child - he was born almost 2 years after James died. I still feel that he is Michael Ryan's and not anyone else's but we will never know the truth of George's parentage.

I have not been able to find out much about Michael Ryan - although it is thought that he was born in 1839, this has not been confirmed and we don't know when or why he arrived in Australia. It may very well be that Michael came out in the early 1850's as a result of the potato famine and put his age down. However, I don't tend to speculate but prefer to stick to the documented facts.

State Records should have Garrett's will which might unlock some of the mystery about why it reverted to Michael's. I looked at Michael's will some years ago and that was how I found the death certificate for his grandson Roy Garrett in Persia in 1929.

I haven't done much research on this line for a number of years now as my interest is more in the Stevens line and I have devoted what little time I have to research to solving the problems in this line,

Jan

by ryans on 2010-04-07 09:25:33

Hi Jan
I shall digest all you have posted. Many thanks to you and all your research, goodness to be researching for so many years, you have much knowledge. Yes I am relatively new to the fascination of family history and I have much to learn. However I have uncovered much of my maternal side back quite a few generations. This is quite exciting to go back to a time we can only read about!
I was very happy to find "someone" with some knowledge of the Ryan family, this is my husbands family and I too am concentrating on another branch of the family, so I am only dabbling and probing here.
Thankyou for replying, I find this the most obliging courtesy of all. I will keep on with my posts on this site with the Ryans, and if you have the time, I would be most grateful of any information.
Kind regards
Belinda

by Rockborne38 on 2010-04-23 03:34:31

Ellen Shufflebottom was my great great Grandmother, and I did have a copy of the book by my cousin Gary Bryant, and cant find it anywhere. One daughter of Ellen and John James Shufflebottom was Harriett Ann, she was my great grandmother and we have a copy of her marriage certificate on which she signed her mark, and gave her name as Stephenson, but then on her death certificate in 1933 her parents are shown as James Stevens and Ellen Butler. We believe, from the evidence of her children showing that George Stevens was born 22 months after the death of John James Shufflebottom, that a male named Stevens may have played some part in her life before she married Shufflebottom and perhaps he came back into her life. We are trying now to make contact again with my cousin Gary to find out if he did further research and can clear up the mystery of the name change to Stevens, for some reason we thought that was covered in his book but as we cant find our copy, cant confirm that,perhaps Fay Fraser at top of the page could look in her copy and clear the mystery for us. If you are in the line from Harriett Steven and her marriage to Albert Phillips at Armidale in the Wesleyan Parsonage in December 1870 then you and I are related.

by jamboree on 2010-04-23 18:36:58

Hi

I am a descendent of Ellen and James via the William Alfred line. I have seen Gary's book and can't remember him solving the issue of the name change to Stevens. 'm sure I would have remembered that as it is something that has puzzled researchers for years! It is common with names like Stevens to be wrongly recorded as Stephenson - as Harriet signed with a mark, she probably couldn't read either so wouldn't have picked this up if it was incorrect. Ellen married Michael Ryan shortly after the birth of George and it may be that he was the father.

If she was involved with a male named Stevens it was a short liaison as Ellen arrived in the colony in Dec 1840 and married James in July 1841. More likely the name change may have been something to do with James being a convict or she may have just changed the name to something simpler than Shufflebottom which is also spelt differently in the records relating to this family.

by Rockborne38 on 2010-04-27 19:04:03

We have had no luck finding any details of the ship Resource on which Ellen Shufflebottom/Stevens/Stephenson arrived in Australia, nor can we find the year she arrived, can you point us in the direction of where that information came from that she arrived in 1840, fare paid by Mr JW Marshall, and she was a housemaid, we have searched, cant find the ship, cant find a passenger list with her name on it, yet on her marriage cert she is shown as Free and he is shown as TofL (ticket of leave) we would appreciate advice please.

by allycat on 2010-04-27 19:33:12

See if Australian [http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,165.0.html]Rootschatters[/url] can dig the info up for you. Register as a new user, post a lookup request.

EDITOR (Qld).

by allycat on 2010-04-27 19:35:02
by jamboree on 2010-04-28 07:51:08

Hi
A simple Google search found the details of the ship
http://members.iinet.net.au/~perthdps/shipping/mig-nsw.htm

then I went to the shipping records at State Records who have Ellen i
listed
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/ebook/list.asp?Page=NRS5316/4_4787/Resource_22%20Dec%201840/4_478700137.jpg&No=6

From memory the name of the person that paid her fare was in the other registers at State Records
Jan

by Rockborne38 on 2010-08-04 02:53:25

Hi to all the researchers of the Shufflebottom family. We have been lucky recently, first Fay sent us a copy of the book by Gary, then we established contact again with Gary and got lots of great photos from him that were not included in his book, then then we established contact with another cousin in this family and got more photos, then this week were given a good clear black print on white page copy of the pardon for John james Shufflebottom, and lots of photos of the family of Henry Stevens branch of the family, he was the youngest son of John James and Ellen, born in 1856, so this year has been the best so far of our 40plus years of researching this Shufflebottom family, so if you want something form our data, send us a pm, and we are happy to share.

by mikecarm01 on 2010-09-28 07:58:30

Hi,

I am a descendent of Michael Ryan. Ivy Ryan, the daughter of Garrett Ryan and Lucy Hussey, was my grandmother. I would be most grateful for any information on the Ryan family.

Regards,
Mike

by jamboree on 2010-09-30 05:30:17

Hi Mike

This is the information that I have on your line.

Cheers
Jan

Descendants of Garret Martin Ryan
---------------------------------
1-Garret Martin Ryan b. 17 Sep 1863, Wyndham Creek, NSW, Australia, d. 15 Jan
1912, Harrina, Coolatai, NSW, Australia
+Lucy Frances Harriet Hussey b. 1870, Warialda, NSW, Australia, d. 23 May
1952, Warialda, NSW, Australia
|--2-Ivy Veronica Catherine Ryan b. 12 Nov 1895, Glengarry, Coolatai, NSW,
| Australia, d. 30 Oct 1969, Warialda, NSW, Australia
| +Edward Thomas Oldham b. 6 Jan 1887, d. 14 Dec 1963, Warialda, NSW,
| Australia
|--2-Roy Garrett Ryan b. 9 Jan 1898, Warialda, NSW, Australia, d. 4 Sep 1929,
| Ahwaz, Persia
|--2-Mary Ryan b. 2 Dec 1899, Glen Garry, Warialda, NSW, Australia
| +John Flynn
|--2-Eric Roy Ryan b. 1901, Registered at Warialda, NSW, Australia, d. 1968,
| Braidwood, NSW, Australia
| +Margaret Lynch
|--2-Lucy Ryan b. 1903, Registered at Warialda, NSW, Australia, d. 16 Oct 1903,
| Registered at Warialda, NSW, Australia
|--2-Keith Hussey Ryan b. 1905, Registered at Warialda, NSW, Australia, d. 21
| Aug 1939, Tamworth, NSW, Australia
| +Margaret Mary Flood b. 1907, Tamworth, NSW, Australia
| |--3-Thomas Ryan b. 1936, Tamworth, NSW, Australia, d. 1936, Tamworth, NSW,
| | Australia
|--2-Josephine Patricia Ryan b. 13 Jul 1907, Glen Garry, Warialda, NSW,
| Australia, d. 30 Mar 1975, (Warialda Cemetery, NSW, Australia)
| +Leslie Moore b. Abt 1903, d. 12 Jan 1989, (Warialda Cemetery, NSW,
| Australia)
| |--3-Mary Therese Moore b. 1 Jul 1949, d. 3 Jul 1949, (Warialda New
| | Cemetery, NSW, Australia)
|--2-Lucy Agnes Ryan b. 5 Feb 1910, Warialda, NSW, Australia, d. 1978, NSW,
| Australia
+Lionel Owen Grattan b. 13 Sep 1911, Boggabri, NSW, Australia
|--3-Keith Grattan
|--3-Sydney George Grattan

by faybell51 on 2010-12-25 01:38:28

Hi
I have just come across this site and am most interested to read these posts.
My husband's great-grandfather was George Stevens. I too have been researching the Ellen Butler, Shufflebottom, Ryan lines and have also run across the same puzzling change of name etc. George seems to be the odd one out,so to speak, as there is no recorded name on his birth certificate but on his baptism certificate it is John Stephens, different spelling again, but as you all say of course after doing family research for some years it is quite common to find different spelling etc. The name Stevens has been passed down through my husband's line. If anyone ever finds out who the biological father of George Stevens is I would be most greatful to have that infomation.
Fay

by jamboree on 2010-12-25 15:27:46

Hi Fay

The biological father of George is a mystery! I tend to feel that it might be Michael Ryan as he married Ellen a short time later but have not found anything to verify that fact. Perhaps one day DNA will unlock this mystery.

This family have a lot of unsolved elements :)

Cheers
Jan

by faybell51 on 2010-12-26 18:29:07

Hi Jan
Yes, my husband is inclined to agree with you because, as Catholics to be born out of wedlock would not have been acceptable so hence the different name. I think the biggest mystery of all is why she chose the name Stevens and why did she change all the Shufflebottom children to that name. She certainly does seem to be a odd lady.
Fay

by jamboree on 2010-12-28 13:26:39

Yes, she is one person that I really would have liked to meet!

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