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J.P.FAWKNER'S CO-OPS, SURNAME LIST FOR SECTION 13, TULLAMARINE, VIC., AUST.

The names in the surnames list are the members of John Pascoe Fawkner's co-operative which purchased land in section 13 of the parish of Tullamarine, north and south of Mansfields Rd, Tullamarine (Melway 4 A1 and 4 to G3-5).

The Melway reference and lot number of each purchaser's block(s)will be given in the journal: JOHN PASCOE FAWKNER AND HIS CO-OPERATIVES.

J.P.FAWKNER'S CO-OPS,SURNAMES LIST FOR PART SECTIONS 6, 7, TULLAMARINE (and George Scarlett.)

The names in the surnames list are the members of John Pascoe Fawkner's co-operative which purchased land in the part of sections 6 and 7 on the south west side of Bulla Rd (now Melrose Drive)in the parish of Tullamarine.

Section 5 was "Stewarton" (renamed Gladstone in about 1892 after the Engllsh Prime Minister's cousin. Its south west corner was the present corner of Lackenheath Drive and Mickleham Rd (Melway 5 J11.) Its boundary with the Township of Broadmeadows was Forman St (5 K7.) The eastern boundary was the Moonee Ponds Creek.

By drawing a line between Forman St and the west end of Grants Rd, the northern boundary of section 6 and all but about 180 metres of section 7 can be seen. If you continue the line of Lackenheath Drive 16 centimetres to the west on your Melway,you will find the exact south west corner of section 7 (just 5mm on the map north of gate 22 on Operations Rd.) The boundary between sections 5 and 6 was Broadmeadows Rd (now Mickleham Rd.)

J.C.Riddell, after whom Riddell's Creek was named,purchased section 6 and as the south west corner was across the road (a triangle roughly enclosed by Link Rd, Trade Park and Melrose Drive, he sold it to Fawkner. In return, Fawkner sold to Riddell the north east corner of section 7, a triangle south of the Cleanaway waste facility mainly comprised of Melway 5 E7.


The Melway reference and lot number of each purchaser's block(s)will be given in the journal: JOHN PASCOE FAWKNER AND HIS CO-OPERATIVES.

GEORGE SCARLETT.
In comments, garyboy alerted me to the issue in which George Scarlett's land was advertised for sale. The location of the land and lot numbers are given in my comment following his. The map showing subdivision lots has been sent to garyboy and is available to descendants of the other pioneers named in the surname list.The digitisation needed correction,which I have done, so that garyboy can copy and paste from here (there are still a few errors on trove.) The Lady of the Lake hotel was built on section 3 by David William O'Niall,subject of one of my journals, on land leased from William Foster by about 1847 and was a well-known landmark.It was just south of the Derby St corner and adjoined Broombank (Millar Rd area), leased by my great grandfather, John Cock, from 1867 until 1882. The 10 acre lot adjoined lots 31 and 32 and the reason it needed to be fenced separately is that a lane ran between it and the double block. (See my comment under garyboy's.)

MONDAY, 4th SEPTEMBER.
By Order of the Executors of the late Mr. George Scarlett.
Farms on the Deep Creek Road, Ten Miles from Melbourne.
A BLISS and CO. have received Instructions from the executors of the late Mr. George Scarlett to submit to public auction, at the Lady of the Lake, on the Deep Creek road, on Monday, 4th September, at two o'clock,
20 acres of beautiful agricultural land, having erected there a very substantially built four-roomed wooden
house, panelled doors, spouted, with a tank capable of holding water for the year; all fenced in, clear
and ready for the plough.
Also, 10 acres of splendid land adjoining, partially fenced in. To be sold in one lot or separately.
This being the property of a trust estate it must be sold without reserve, for the benefit of those interested
under the will.
Terms-Half cash, the remainder to remain (at the option of the purchaser) for two years at 8 per cent, on mortgage. 101. (Item 8,column 2,page 7, Argus, 26-8-1854.)

And as always when I help a family historian,I receive as much information as I give.

Thanks xxx for your well researched information relating to the location and sale of George Scarlett's land holdings in 1856. Interesting about the nearby Lady of the Lake Hotel and a very good chance George and sons patronized the establishment at some time. Interesting that George sought to acquire a rural acreage as after arriving in Melbourne in March 1841 with his wife and six children he established a jewelry business in Collins street however sales could not have been as brisk as expected and by 1843 he appeared on the Port Phillip Insolvency list. I'm uncertain as to when he applied for and was granted his land at Tullamarine but I know he was living there in early 1854 as his grandson also named George was born there in February of that year. I discovered this fact quite recently when I viewed a copy of George's 1878 (Ballarat) wedding certificate. Young George'e father James who was also residing at the Tullarmarine farm listed his occupation as gardener. Perhaps James and his other two brothers were farming the block however on the 14th June 1854 George (snr) passed away at the Watermans Arms Hotel in Little Collins street of a stroke, aged 52. I was never aware until a few months back whilst conducting a family history that the second son James Scarlett married an Irish Famine orphan girl, Lilly Ann Barber (Barbour) in 1853. They died in 1901 and 1903 and are buried in the Ballarat Cemetery. Lilly Ann was my grandfathers grandmother but I never heard him ever mention his Irish ancestry, Also my father who lived to 95 never mentioned Lilly Barber, George's Bankruptcy or of him dying in the Waterman's Arms. Possibly they never knew or it was things best forgotten. Thanks to Google it's not. Getting back to the Tullarmarine block.... I notice that a large portion of the 20 acres is outside the Airport restricted area so hopefully there isn't a problem with access as much of the area appears to unfenced open grassland. Aspirations to locate the site of the original dwelling which presumably would be on the northern section adjoining Andersons? lane. We'll see how I go and will keep you posted if I'm fortunate enough to stumble upon any relics of the era.. Apologies for straying into my ancestors closet but without your diligent and painstaking research I would have been facing an arduous task researching the Tullamarine connection. Kind Regards, Gary.

To save me sending a further email to Gary,having already told him about the 1858 advertisements, the partly fenced 10 acre block must have sold in 1854 but not lots 31 and 32. There is no doubt that Gary will be able to make a close inspection of the East Collingwood corner block (if he can find out which corner.) The Park/Stafford St intersection is at Melway 2C J8.The house block at Tullamarine (36 x 26 feet, about 10 x 8 metres) occupied only a small part of the 20 acres (140 x 280 metres) so the majority of the land was used for farming.

As stated earlier,each 10 acre block (on map 5 in my 1999 Melway) measures roughly 7 millimetres (frontage) by 14 millimetres (depth), the boundary dimensions having been roughly 700 links X 1400 links (140 metres X 280 metres.) As it would have been ridiculous to try to measure fractions of amillimetreI had to divide up the space filled with 10 acre blocks so that the space was filled and all blocks had the same dimensions (as demonstrated by title documents.) Using the dimensions of 700 X 1400 links,the product is 9.8 acres,fairly close to 10 acres.Gary will find that the total frontage of lots 31 and 32 on the map that I sent him is actually 14.5 millimetres so that the width of each 10 acre block is 7.25 millimetres (obtained by dividing the total space as described above.) As you can see,the Maths I learnt at school was not entirely useless and any subdivision maps I have produced were done with such care that I have actually found mistakes in parish maps as a result,such as the spot where Arundel Creek flows into the Maribyrnong River in Foote's Doutta Galla map.

THIS DAY.
To Speculators,Persons Seeking Investments, and Others
Unreserved Sale of Valuable Freehold Property.
By Order of tho Executor and Trustee of the late George Scarlett
SYMONS and PERRY have received instructions from the executor and trustee of the late George Scarlett to SELL by AUCTION, at their new rooms, Collins-street, on Monday, 8th inst, at 12 o'clock,
Lot 1.
2O acres, a little more or less, part of section 7, parish of Tullamarine, county of Bourke, 10 miles from
Melbourne, on the Deep Creek-road, and near the Beech Tree Hotel, on which is erected a good substantial weatherboard house standing on a frontage of 36 feet, by a depth of 26 feet. There is also a splendid
tank, well built of stone, with a good supply of water. The land is all fenced in.
Lot 2.
All that piece or parcel of land situate in East Collingwood, having a frontage of 108 feet 6? inches to
Park street, by a depth along Stafford street of 75 feet. The above is a splendid corner allotment, and is
worthy the attention of persons seeking investments.
Terms liberal, declared at sale.
The auctioneers wish to call the attention of capitalists and speculators to the above really choice pro-
perties as being of sterling quality, and are to be sold to the highest bidder. 1970
(P.2,Argus, 8-2-1858,near bottom of column 2.)


The above is,I think,the earliest reference to the Beech Tree Hotel that I have seen. The earliest reference to it in the Cole Collection of Hotel records was a ball held there in 1864. It is possible that the Lady of the Lake Hotel had been burnt down by this time and the Junction Hotel did not exist for some time, giving John Beech an opportunity to establish his hotel without competition. The Travellers' Rest near the site of Airport West Shoppingtown probably hadn't been built and the Inverness at Oaklands Junction was far enough away.

As shown in advertisements for the Beech Tree,it also had a huge underground tank.It is likely that it was lined with stone as George Scarlett's was.

2 comment(s), latest 1 year ago

James Hearn and Big Clarke: KANGERONG/MOOROODUC; ESSENDON; YUROKE (VIC.,AUST.) The Ashes.

In a history of Essendon's historic houses, or historical origins of street names in the Essendon area,probably written by Lenore Frost,it was stated that James Hearn was the son-in -law of William John Turner Clarke (often referred to as "Big" Clarke.) At the time of Big Clarke's death,he was practically paralysed and was being cared for at "Roseneath",the residence of James Hearn.

Roseneath was just east of the water reserve at the south corner of Mt Alexander Rd and Woodland St and was later the residence of William Salmon who donated part of his estate (Salmon Reserve) to the Essendon Council. The part of the Township of Essendon north of Glass St, named "Hawstead" contained larger "suburban" blocks and the one on which Roseneath was built seems to have been granted to a member of Big Clarke's family. GET ALLOTMENT DETAILS.

Despite claims that William Pomeroy Greene of Woodlands was responsible for the name of Woodland St,the above author (if my memory is correct)stated that the street name came from a huge estate/run in the west of Victoria held by Big Clarke. Greene may have been responsible for the naming of Essendon, being associated with a village of that name in England whose Anglican Church still has a font donated by the Greene family. This latter article (font etc)was in the Essendon Historical Society newsletter. The Water Reserve,fed by Five Mile Creek,is now Woodlands Park.

Since I started researching my SAFETY BEACH journal,I have been trying, unsuccessfully, to prove that either James Hearn or John Vans Agnew Bruce (a big contractor from Essendon who owned, by 1863,the 1000 acres of Safety Beach etc north of the line of Martha Cove Waterway or Tassells Creek leased by Edwin Louis Tassell)was a son-in-law of Big Clarke.

"THORNGROVE" in the parish of Yuroke was granted to Big Clarke and later owned by James Hearn, as was a grant a bit further south in the parish of Will Will Rook that Hay Lonie had been leasing as a dairy farm. Big Clarke was said to have bought all of Jamieson's Special Survey in stages and (a) sold the northern 1000 acres to Bruce at a big profit (LIME LAND LEISURE) OR (b)given it to his son-in-law,Bruce, as a wedding present (A DREAMTIME OF DROMANA.) The Survey was the northern part of the parish of Kangerong and immediately north of the Sea Lane (Ellerina/Bruce Rd)in the parish of Moorooduc, was the Mount Martha Run,last held by James Hearn who received the grants for most of it, along the coast from Balcombe Creek's mouth to Hearn's Rd,the Dalkeith pre-emptive Right (north to White's Lane, now Range Rd)and other land east to the Tubbarubba diggings.

The passing of ownership from Big Clarke to James Hearn of two large tracts north /west of Melbourne and ownership of adjoining property near Mt Martha and even Clarke's death at Roseneath could just indicate a very close friendship,akin to that between Edward Williams and Sidney Smith Crispo,the former managing Manners-Sutton (west of Canterbury Jetty Rd)in early days and buying the latter's Eastbourne estate at Rosebud West,even caring for the great Crispo there during his last days. However it seems more likely that the association between Clarke and Hearn was more than just a friendship,probably a relationship.

While asking that great detailer of history,Isaac Batey, about John Rankin with the aid of trove,the truth may have finally emerged.
During my stay in the Riverina, falling in with Mr. James Hearne, a first cousin of the late Sir William Clarke,I learnt that (etc.) (P.4, Sunbury News, 4-7-1903.)

Sir William was Big Clarke's son and built Rupertwood (named after his own son) where the tradition of "The Ashes" started. I'm hoping that a F.T.C. member has a copy of the Clarke family history and can provide the exact details of the Clarke-Hearn relationship.My guess is that Big Clarke's wife was a Hearn. Help!

JAMES HEARN OF YUROKE AND MT. MARTHA. (VIC., AUST.)

On the 1st inst., at his residence, Thorngrove, Sydney-road, James Hearn, Esq., aged forty-six years: an old colonist, much respected ; leaving a widow and large family to deplore the loss of an affectionate husband and loving parent. (P.4,Argus, 2-9-1857.)

James Hearn of Mt. Martha and James Hearn north of Broadmeadows were one and the same! Lenore Frost said that W.J.T.(Big)Clarke died at Roseneath in Essendon,the property of his son-in-law,James Hearn. I presumed this James Hearn was the grantee of so much of the parish of Moorooduc but could not find any marital connection between him and a daughter of Big Clarke. Thorn Grove was granted to Big Clarke and might have been a wedding present to James Hearn. A page by Family Tree Circle's Tonkin may have uncovered the Hearn/Clarke family connection.

(PORTER Claude married Caroline HEARN 1878 - Family ...
www.familytreecircles.com/test-52905.html)

Groom: Claude Robert PORTER.
Birth place recorded as Launceston.

Bride: Carolind Louisa HEARN.
Birth place recorded as Melbourne.

Year married: 1878.
Place: Victoria.

Claude died 1925 in Malvern East, victoria, aged 67 years.
Parents named as William PORTER and Mary Ann MAKEPEACE.

Birth Note.
Claude was born in Tasmania on 26 March 1857.
Parents named as William PORTER and Mary Ann MAKEPEACE.

Mary died 1913 in Hawthorn, Victoria, aged 62 years.
Parents named as James HEARN and Louisa CLARKE.

James HEARN and Louisa CLARKE had several children in Melbourne but I'm unable to find a baptism/birth for Caroline.

MARRIAGE.
On the 3rd inst., at Thorngrove, by the Rev. M.Clarke, of Castlemaine, William Hann, eldest son of Joseph Hann, Esq., of Coolort Station, Western Port,to Mary Burge, eldest daughter of the late James Hearn, Esq., of Thorngrove, Yuroke. (P.4, Argus, 4-11-1859.)

The connections between the area north of Broadmeadows Township and the Mornington Peninsula keep on coming.
Ferdinand B.Hann owned Dunhelen,north of the Greenvale reservoir, not far from Thorngrove.
05 May 1903 - The Argus - p4
nla.gov.au/nla.news-page332211
Mr. George Howat reports having sold by private contract, on account of the executor of the late F. B. Hann, part of the Dunhelen Estate, Broadmeadows, ...



THURSDAY, DECEMBER 19.
Unreserved Sale of Valuable Freehold Property. In the Parishes of Will Will Rook, Mickleham, and Moorooduc. ,
DALMAHOY CAMPBELL and Co. have received instructions from the executors of the late James Hearn, Esq, to OFFER for SALE by PUBLIC AUCTION, at Kirk's Bazaar, Bourke-street west, on Thursday, the 19th December next, at eleven o'clock, Without reserve,
The following very valuable properties:-
Lot 1,
containing 805a. 2r. 22p, situate about 10 miles from Melbourne, on the old Sydney-road,bounded on the west by the said-road, on the north by Portion 6, parish of Euroke ; on the east by Portion 18, parish of Will Will Rook ; and on the south by part of Lot 15.This property is all securely fenced with a four-wire fence. About 30 acres have been cultivated, and the land is well wooded and watered. It is let to Mr. Stephen Toogood for five years from January, 1858, at £200 per annum.
Lot 2.
containing 476a, in the parish of Mickleham, situate about 20 miles from Melbourne, bounded on the west by the Broadmeadows-road, on the north by the property of Mr. John Hatly, on the east by the property of Captain Pearson, and on the south by the township of Mickleham. This property is securely fenced on the east with a
post-and rail and wire fence, with a brush fence on the south west, and north boundary lines. This land is also well wooded and watered, and is let to Mr.Robert Creely for two years from March last at £100 per annum.
Lot. 3,
containing 380a 3r, in the parish of Moorooduc, Mount Martha, situate about four miles from Schnapper Point, bounded on the west by a three-chain road, being the main road to the Heads ; on the north and east by Lots 29 and 16, and on the south by a one chain road leading down to Port Phillip Bay. This land is well grassed, and fenced in with a wire and rail fence.
Lot 4,
containing 1,260a. in the same parish, and adjoining the above property, upon which is erected good substantial slab house, with kitchen,store, &c. ; also a good stock-yard and garden. This property is entirely surrounded by roads, and is fenced in with a substantial three-rail fence.
Lot 5,
containing 1,305a. 3r, in the same parish, and bounded on the west by Port Philip Bay, to which it has a magnificent frontage ; on the north by Osborne Village reserve ; on the east by the main road from Schnapper Point to the heads; and on the south by a Government reserve.This lot is fenced in with a three-rail fence on the north, east, and south ; and is, together with the last mentioned properties, situate about 35 miles from
Melbourne.
The auctioneers beg to draw particular attention to the sale of the above properties, as the executors have
decided on selling without reserve. The titles are unexceptionable, and the terms are unusually liberal, viz.-26 per cent cash; 25 per cent at six months; the remainder at the option of the purchaser, for three, five, or seven years, at 8 per cent. per annum. (P.2, Argus,23-11-1861, column 3 item 7.)


HEARN-CLARK.-On the 28th ult, at Lyndhurst,Brunswick, at the residence of the bride's brother-in-law, by the Rev. A. McVean, William Clarke Hearn, second son of the late James Hearn, Esq , of Thorn grove, to Elizabeth Anne, fourth daughter of the late Lieut Charles Griffin Clark, R.N. (P.4, Argus,2-8-1869.)

BIG CLARKE, THORN GROVE AND ROSENEATH, ESSENDON.
Read about Big Clarke and his residence,as he declined,at Roseneath. Read my journal:
YARNS: ABOUT BIG CLARKE AND HIS BRO AND DAVID DUNCAN THE BUILDER, VIC., AUST.

continue

7 comment(s), latest 6 months, 2 weeks ago

JAMES MELDRUM IS A FASCINATING MAN! VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA.

My wife is always complaining that I spend so much time dealing with dead people so here's a live, and lively one for a change. I was waiting for Chris Fatouris to finish a song so I could buy the CD of songs he has written. A few months ago, I had bought this world -class singer/guitarist's other CD and Mornington is fortunate to have him at its famed Main St market.

I noticed a man in a captain's cap listening intently, so I commented, "Good, isn't he?" The reply echoed my opinion and as we chatted, I must have mentioned Graeme Bell of Melbourne jazz fame. His assessment that Chris was an excellent singer and an excellent guitarist carried so much more weight when I found out that he had played clarinet with Graeme Bell and most of the other greats of the Melbourne jazz scene, including Frank Trainor. He was obviously overseas in about 1960 when Judith Mavis Cock started singing with Frank's All Stars before becoming the lead singer for The Seekers.

"What's so facinating about playing in jazz bands?" you might be asking. But wait, there's more; no, not steak knives, silly! This same man was a well-known artist who associated with Arthur Boyd (subject of one of my journals), Sidney Nolan and even Picasso, about whom he told me an erectile disfunction story. As well as showing me some of his paintings, he demonstrated his skills as a ventriloquist and a magician. His stories about the Mexican bandito types in Mexico, the madamoiselle in Paris and the Mafia in Carlton were sprinked with faultless quotations in Spanish, French and Italian (with translations for silly me.)

These bursts into foreign languages completely dispelled any suspicions that this elderly man was romancing. But I really didn't entertain any doubts because of the raid- fire succession of stories. Anyone who has tried creative writing knows the agonies of determining plot, sequencing and so on and anyone who has been forced to make a speech without notes knows how difficult it is to remember what they had rehearsed. Some people might think that my journals are just made up but I can assure you that if I were making them up, the task would be 1000 times more difficult than reporting facts absorbed into my memory or noted previously.

He was a gymnast and was most impressed when I told him of the Gault girls at Gladstone Park Primary School who were the only ones able to reproduce the fully-extended horizontal hang from a pole. He gained free passage on his travels by joining the crew of a steamer, served as a diplomat which nearly saw his end in front of a firing squad in Egypt during the Suez crisis.

I believe him but it would be difficult to verify the above. However, he told me a bit about his family. His son, Paul Meldrum, played for Carlton. His father was an architect and employed a nanny for his children. His brother was Lord Mayor of Melbourne and snaffled his architect father's estate while the fascinating man was overseas. Oops, I think I might have given you a clue with the footballer's name. I thought I'd tease you a bit by not putting the fascinating man's name in the title. Okay, the surname is Meldrum but it's not Max, even though he was a famous artist, and it's not Mollie.

He's writing a book called "From One Damn Thing to Another" which sums up the above fairly well. I think it should come with an audio version so that the "flavour" I experienced can be shared. What a wonderful TV series could be made from this book if a multi-talented actor could be found for the role of James Meldrum .

The following can be checked on trove and art/architecture websites. James was an artist, winning an important prize at the age of 17, and featuring in exhibitions with many notable artists. James told me his other son was overseas; he might be the famed jazz clarinetist in Britain. James Meldrum's brother was Richard who followed the father's occupation as architect; the firm is still prominent. Richard's term as Mayor was marked by a return to tradition and the banning of cars in some parts of the city. James and Richard were the sons of Percival Meldrum, who designed many well-known buildings.

THIS TEXT ACCOMPANIES THE ATTACHED JAMES MELDRUM PAINTING ON THE WEBSITE "FEATURED ARTIST: JAMES MELDRUM".
NAME: James Meldrum
OVERVIEW: James Meldrums paintings were first shown in London, then at Kozminsky galleries in Melbourne 1953. His large, colourful, surrealistic canvases depicting non functional furniture have appeared in many exhibitions and won him the 1971 Sulman Prize. He held about 30 solo exhibitions 1951 2006 including in London, Sydney and Melbourne. Widely traveled, his commissions included a number of mural commissions for architectural firms in Melbourne and Brisbane.


N.B. Durham Place (Rosebud Fishing Village ) was named after Emily Durham, the grandmother of Judith Mavis Cock whose daughter married Bill Cock, a D.F.C. winner. Judith spent her summer holidays there until 1949 before Bill moved to Tasmania. Unfortunately the timber house in the middle of the block on the west side of Durham Place has been demolished. When she started singing with Frank Trainor's band Judith used her mother's maiden name.


3 comment(s), latest 3 years ago

JAMES PIGDON OF "DUNHELEN" (NEAR GREENVALE, VIC., AUST.) HAD A SENSE OF HUMOUR.

ENTRY IN DHOTAMA.
PIGDON
James Pigdon was a man with a sense of humour. A tale related to me by the late Bob Blackwell appears under BLACKWELL in the B volume but I will give the gist of it here. Bobs grandfather, William, worked for Pigdon on Dunhelen and tended to have an ale or six at Lavars Hotel whenever he was passing the hotel, which was located at the s/w corner of Mickleham and Somerton Rds.(not at the n/e corner as wrongly shown in some maps.) Pigdon warned Blackwell not to stop at the hotel or he would be sacked. The latter could not resist the temptation so to disguise his state, he stood up on the dray as it bounced up the driveway to the bluestone homestead and loudly declared, Nobody can say Im drunk! James Pigdon laughed so much that his threat was never carried out.
Broadmeadows rate record of 1899-1900 shows that James C. Pigdon was leasing a house and 1000 acres from the Ham executors. The rate collector was obviously not acquainted with the late owner, Ferdinand Bond Brown Shortland Hann, who bought the Dunhelen estate of 2500 acres in 1885.
Dunhelen, whose historic house and stables still stand at 1240 Mickleham Rd., originally consisted of sections 11,12 and 13 of the parish of Yuroke, a total of just over 1980 acres, whose location is indicated by Melway 178, E/1-2 to 179, H/2-4. By Pigdons time, Dunhelen land west of Mickleham Rd. had been sold to the Crinnions (426 acres) and Michael Crotty (200 acres); this later became the Hall familys Kentucky. Pigdons leased 1000 acres was on the east side of Mickleham Rd.

JAMES PURVES' RESIDENCE AT FINGAL??? ALFRED JONES OF SOMERVILLE. (VIC., AUST.)and Edward Jones.

Talk about being sidetracked. I was looking for more detail about John Bryan when I found this. The next advertisement was also of interest, so....

The Thoroughbred Stallion, Mornington For Service this Season at the Residence of the undersigned, in the Parish of Fingal, 9 Miles from - DROMANA. HE is a rich chestnut, 6 years old, stands 16 hands high, possesses a fine temper, very powerful and fast. His stock are very promising. Mornington is by Demonstrator, from Issle, by the Premier (imported). Demonstrator's dam, Vallonia (imported), by Woolwich, out of Florence Nightingale, by Cotherstone.- Her dam, Fanny Booth, by Gladiator, &c., (see Stud Book). Grand sire, Mathematician (imported), by Emilius, out of Maria, by Whisker, &c., (see Stud Book). TERMS :-£2 10s. each mare, one in five allowed; £2 2s. for mares that visited Mornington last season. All Mares to be paid for on removal. Due notice will be given when mares are stinted. Every care taken of mares, but no responsibility. Good paddocks. 13ccd JAMES PURVES.

To STAND this Season at ALMOND -BUSH, SOMERVILLE The Thoroughbred Stallion, Moonbeam.
(P.4, South Bourke and Mornington Journal, 5-12-1877.)

There were many horse breeders on the Mornington Peninsula such as George McLear at Dromana and Edward Gomm at Somerville near Gomms Rd.The owner of Almond Bush Stud at Somerville (at the north end of Almond Bush St, Melway 107 J10-11) was Alfred Jones who was born in England but went to Canada with his parents at the age of about 10. His biography was in VICTORIA AND ITS METROPOLIS:PAST AND PRESENT (1888.) It told how he supplied firewood for a few years before farming at Baxter's Flat and then buying land at Somerville. It said that he took the wood to Frankston but it was actually Mt Eliza in the parish of Frankston. Many websites state that Canadian Bay was named after three Canadians but do not give their names.Mr Mann's history of Mt Eliza(in the local history room at the Rosebud Library)does name them:McCurley, Hodgins and Jones. The Liverpool anchored a mile offshore in Canadian Bay and the wood was rowed out to the ship. Jones Rd in Somerville was named after Alfred. Hodgins Rd was named after Charlotte and J.Hodgins, who were granted crown allotments 39B and 39A, parish of Bittern, 191 acres at the north west corner of Hodgins and Boes Rds(Melway 154 B-c 7-8.)
Boundary Road at Mr Eliza,part of the boundary between the parishes of Frankston and Moorooduc is now named Canadian Bay Rd because of Jones, Hodgins and McCurley.

Jones' Corner, the centre of the locality of Moorooduc is named after Edward Jones, a Welshman, whose family owned Spring Farm, Criccieth and Penbank (whose locations can be given if desired.) This family was not related to Alfred Jones. The Shepherds, prominent nurserymen at Somerville, were related to the Edward Jones family and later established a nursery on part of Penbank. David Shepherd suggested the site for the Penbank school.

WHICH JAMES PURVES?
The two men credited with having started the breeding of thoroughbreds in Victoria were James Purves and William Cross Yuille,the latter the author of the Stud Book. I was surprised to discover this as Hurtle Fisher and his brother, Charles B.Fisher (the father of the Australian Turf according to MARIBYRNONG:ACTION IN TRANQUILITY), had captured this distinction in my mind.

This James Purves died at Richmond on 12-6-1878. (P.1s, Launceston Examiner, 6-7-1878.) He owned Chinton, east of Mt Macedon and Tootgarook on the Mornington Peninsula. Neither is mentioned in this obituary but they were in other obituaries. James Purves had a brother named Peter but you'd never know it unless you read Hec Hanson's MEMOIRS OF A LARRIKIN. He was a mason and followed his architect brother to Van Diemans Land when his wife died shortly after giving birth to their first child, James. Leaving the baby in the care of a relative, the heartbroken Peter joined his brother and combining their skills they built many of Tasmania's early bridges.

James brought sheep to the Port Phillip District in 1837 but I'd bet it was Peter who looked after them; James always preferred the high life in Melbourne. They probably managed Edward Hobson's Tootgarook from the mid 1840's, while Hobson managed his brother's River of Little Fish (Traralgon) Run, and took over the lease of the Tootgarook Run in 1850. To illustrate my comment about James and the high life, he was involved in organising Melbourne first Sporting Carnival and it was Peter who with James Ford organised the dodgy petition in the late 1850's against the Government's plan to fence off the police paddock near the Heads from White Cliff to the back beach.

From 1852, James Purves lived on the Tootgarook pre-emptive right full time! A change of heart? No, this James Purves was Peter's son,born in 1835. He spent eight years with his father who died in March 1860. It must have been this James Purves who placed the advertisement and lived at Fingal. It must have been this James Purves who bought Green Hills on the west side of Purves Rd in Rosebud before the late 1880's. While the men were building the dairy etc at Green Hills, aborigines came to the Tootgarook homestead asking for water while James' daughters, Emily and Frances (aged about 11 and 5) were home alone.

Why was James still not living at Tootgarook? Possibly a disagreement with prominent lawyer, James Liddle Purves, the son of the architect and the new owner, who expected him to do all the work with little reward or appreciation, much the same reason that George Gomm left Glenhoya at Somerville because of his brother Billy's lack of contribution.

And where was James Purves' residence at Fingal? It was a 514 acre property granted to James Purves on 10-5-1860. Had James moved away from Tootgarook soon after Peter's death? It consisted of crown allotments 1,2, and 3 of section A of the parish of Fingal, bounded by Limestone, Truemans and Sandy Rds(Melway 251-2) with the south east corner of The Dunes being its north west corner.

JAMES ROBERTSON BOAG, DROMANA AND FINGAL, MORNINGTON PENINSULA, VIC., AUST.

This journal results from an overlong aside in my SHIRE OF FLINDERS journal about non-councillors who were involved in a meeting about the Flinders and Kangerong Farmers' Union. As not much seems to have been written about the Boag family genealogy, I took the opportunity to add some information but as the Shire of Flinders journal is primarily about council matters and details about the councillors, I thought it best to paste the present information here (where I can add more) and leave only a summary, directing Boag researchers to this journal.


James Robertson Boag owned or leased much land in the parish of Fingal and established a dairy and guest house, "Melrose" at Dromana. While at Fingal, James probably supplemented his income with some fishing, which would account for the naming of Boag Rocks (Melway 252 B11.) Robert Quinan,Dromana schoolteacher, was living at Melrose, when he committed suicide. To earn extra income he did book-keeping for the shire and finding the figures didn't balance, tried to borrow money from Richard Watkin, who owned the Dromana Hotel.The request was refused and he could not face the shame of incompetence, being an acclaimed teacher as demonstrated by the 1861 petition.It was at Boag's that George McLear first met his beautiful future wife. See A DREAMTIME OF DROMANA. James Boag's farm was on crown allotment of section 1 Kangerong, consisting of 88 acres and he was assessed on it in the first Kangerong Road Board rate record of 1864. James Edward Boag was in occupation in 1910 and Melrose continued as a dairy after the Boags sold it, the last operators being the Turners. The Turner Estate, west of the Monaco Estate, has streets named after plants, the end of Heath Rd indicating the western boundary.

As Colin McLear had no genealogical detail on the Boag family, I have included the following seemingly mystifying snippet.
WAINWRIGHT.On 2nd August, at the residence of his parents. 15 Horace-street, Quarry Hill, Bendigo. William, twin son of H. M. and A. R Wainwright. grandson of Mrs. B. T. Boag, Dromana, and Mrs. W. Allison., Footscray, aged 17 months.(P.6, Bendigo Advertiser, 5-8-1914.)
Catherine Wainwright's husband had died while they were running the Arthur's Seat Hotel, between Permien and Foote Sts in Dromana. In about 1887-8, she married William Allison but H.M.Wainwright was her son. He obviously married a Boag girl.

A very pretty wedding was celebrated on Tuesday afternoon at the Dromana Presbyterian Church, when Miss Annette Ross Boag, ,eldest daughter of Mrs Boag, of " Melrose," Dromana, was united in the matrimonial bonds to Mr H. W. Wainwright, of Western Australia. A full report of the interesting event is to hand, and will be published next week: (P.5, Mornington Standard, 25-3-1905.) Annette's pet name seems to have been Meta.
The marriage of H. M. Wainwright, of this city, and Meta Boag, of Melrose, Dromana. Victoria, will be cele-
brated in tho Presbyterian Church, Dromana, on March 21.(P.9, The Daily News, Perth, 27-2-1905.)

BOAG. On the 17th August, at his residence,"Melrose," Dromana, James Robertson Boag,late of Milnathort, Kinross-shire, Scotland. (Home papers please copy.) (P.1, Argus, 18-8-1903.)

DROMANA. A meeting of the Kangerong A. and H. society was held in the Dromana Hall on Saturday. The treasurer (Mr J.E.Boag) submitted a balance-sheet showing receipts and expenditure in connection with the recent show etc. (P.2, Mornington Standard, 7-4-1906.)

Ten applications for stage coach licences were received and dealt with. After an inspection of the vehicles, which were all four-wheelers, the following were granted : - W. C. Brent, John Brent, John Boyd, J. B. Baldassari, and R. A. Boag, to carry seven passengers ; John Tuck four teen passengers (six inside and eight outside) ; John Tuck, nine passengers; David Cairns, eleven passengers; David Cairns, four passengers.
(P.2, Mornington Standard, 25-11-1897.)
No mention is made here of contracts, for carriage of mail etc, so I presume that the passengers were tourists arriving on steamers at Dromana and being conveyed to guest houses. I believe all of the above, apart from Boag were in the parish of Flinders.David Cairns senior had been paralysed in 1897 and did what he could to help his wife run a boarding house in Flinders. The main purpose of A.R.Boag's coach would have been to pick up guests staying at "Melrose". (It is possible that A.R.Boag is a result if somebody mishearing J.R.Boag.)

BOAG. On the 25th May, at the residence of her daughter (Mrs H. Wainwright) Gurglata, Fell crescent East Malvern, Beta Theresa, widow of the late James Robertson Boag, Melrose, Dromana, loving mother of James E
(Melbourne) and Emily (Mrs B Budds, Montrose), aged 88 years (Privately interred at Dromana, 27th May.)
(P.17, Argus, 29-5-1926.)

The above clears up a few problems. Mrs.B.T.Boag, grieving grandmother, was Beta Theresa and A.R.Boyd was not a son of J.R. and B.T. Perhaps he was a nephew and living on the Fingal land. Annette Ross Boag's pet name was her grandmother's actual given name.. The Boag family was much involved in the Comedy Club with Misses E. and N.Boag often mentioned. J.Boag is often mentioned(J.R.or J.E.)re community groups It seems that J.E.Boag may have had a son. Special prizes were awarded to W: Chapman, 1st ; J. Boag, 2nd, for Scripture. Ada Story,
lst ; Edith Story; 2nd, for catechism.(P.2, Mornington Standard,20-10-1892, Dromana, Pres. Sunday School.)
I've also found a Mr T.Boag (SKATING CARNIVAL, P.2, Mornington Standard, 24-6-1911.)

My apology for the length of this(Boag)aside, but it may be years before my DRAMA ON TROVE is made available, and I thought it might prove handy in the meantime.One more thing. I believe that Beta Theresa was the daughter of Captain Ross who was granted crown allotment 12 of section 1 Kangerong, adjoining the Boag land on the west and extending to Jetty Rd. It was very common for a mother's or grandmother's maiden name to be used as a given name. (It is possible that James E. Boag, Annette Ross Boag's father, was the one who had married a Ross girl.) In 1865, John Saunders Ross, probably the son of (K.H.W.?) Ross, had two town lots; in 1879, he was described as a tinsmith and his land as lots 4 and 5 , section 2. Each of these half acre blocks, granted to J.S.Ross on 27-4-1860, had a 20 metre frontage to both Foote and McArthur St, commencing 100 metres towards the beach from Clarendon St. What's more, M.G.H.W.Ross, almost certainly the captain, was granted the whole of section 6 (two acres), bounded by Paisley, Layard, Stawell and Clarendon Sts, on 18-8-1856.

WHY "CAPTAIN" ROSS?
MONDAY, APRIL 11, DROMANA. SALE by PUBLIC AUCTION of 60a 3r S4p ,Parish of Kangerong (Dromana) Near tho Sea,
And SEVEN ALLOTMENTS In the Village of Dromana For Unreserved Sale By Order of tho Trustees of the Will of thE Late Commander Ross, R. N.
ALFRED BLISS has received Instructions from the trustees in the above estate to SELL by PUBLIC AUCTION, at the room, 32 Collins street west, on Monday, the 11th April, at twelve o' clock,Allotment 12, of Section 1, parish of Kangerong (Dromana), containing 60a 3r 24p. This is a splendid piece of land, close to tho bay
Also The following Crown Allotments in the township of Dromana
Allotment 1 Section 3 containing 2r
Allotments 1 and 2 Section 4 containing each 2r
Allotments 1, 2, 3 and 4, Section 6 containing each 2r
These seven allotments are in the best part of the township, close to the sea.
1 or j niltlve and al soluto s 1 Title Crown grants, to be seen at the o Heos ofMeier? Mallesun, Kurland and Stewart, solicitors,Queen street TerniB-Ono fourth cash, bsl ineo six and 12 months,bearing ß percent
Sale takes place at tho room 32 C illins s'reet wo t,on Moi diy, April II at twclvpocltck _
(P.2, Argus, 2-4-1881. Did you spot the text that I didn't correct?)

JAMES ROBERTSON BOAG'S LAND IN FINGAL.
Unable to find my note (among information that I was actually seeking at the time of discovery)about James Boag's land in Fingal, I hit the rate records again. The 1864 rates have the section about Fingal missing but in 1865 James Boag was assessed on 444 acres in the parish of Fingal, its nett annual value being 40 pounds.His full name of James Robertson Boag was later recorded but details remained the same until the first Flinders and Kangerong Shire assessment of 2-10-1875. His occupation was given as grazier and he was said to be the owner of the 444 acres. That was his last assessment on the Fingal land.

Locating James Boag's land in Fingal was not the massive task I had expected it to be. I looked at the parish map in the area near Boag Rocks and there it was, on the west side of the end of Truemans Rd. Crown allotment 12, granted to a speculator named Thomas Monanahan (who may also have been interested in lime), consisted of 321 acres and 25 perches and is now the St Andrews Club Gunnamatta Course(Melway 252 C8), its northern boundary continuing west to meet the coastal reserve near the end of Constantine Ave.The southern boundary starts at the drive into 740 Truemans Rd(which for some inexplicable reason was a 198.5 metre kink in the original surveyed road) and continues to meet the coastal reserve south of Krynen St (the St AndrewsBeach/Fingal boundary.)

Crown allotment 13, granted to William Cottier, consisted of 122 acres 3 roods and 25 perches and is now the triangular part of the national park south of St Andrews Beach and the Gunnamatta Course. Crown allotments 12 and 13 total 444 acres 1 rood 10 perches. It is possible to arrive at almost as exact an acreage by combining c/a 13 with any of three Godfrey Howitt grants (11, 15, 16) on the east side of Truemans Rd, but I'm almost certain they became part of Robert Anderson's "Barragunda".

JAMES ROBERTSON BOAG GENEALOGY.
View Tree for James Robertson Boag James Robertson Boag (b. 28 April 1825, d. 1903)
James Robertson Boag (son of James Boag and Grace Robertson) was born 28 April 1825 in Blairfield, Orwell, Kinross-shire, Scotland., and died 1903 in Dromana, Victoria, Australia.. He married Theresa Bete (Bele?) Ross on 1876 in Victoria, Australia.

More About James Robertson Boag:
Death recorded: Vic BDM Index 9389 (aged 72).
Fact 1: 1825, Emigrated to Australia and married Miss Ross.
Fact 2: Had three children.

More About James Robertson Boag and Theresa Bete (Bele?) Ross:
Marriage: 1876, Victoria, Australia.
Marriage Recorded: Vic BDM Index 3168.

Children of James Robertson Boag and Theresa Bete (Bele?) Ross are:

+Annette Ross Boag, b. 1877, Dandenong, Victoria, Australia., d. date unknown.
James Edward Ross Boag, b. 1879, Dandenong, Victoria, Australia., d. 1965, Croydon, Victoria, Australia..
+Emily Grace Ross Boag, b. 1882, Dromana, Victoria, Australia., d. 1972, Croydon, Victoria, Australia..
(From the MY GENEALOGY HOME PAGE.)

James Robertson Boag's wife died 1926 in East Malvern, Victoria but no details were given in the above website regarding her parents. Did her parents live in Dandenong?As the earliest connection I have found on trove between Ross and Dandenong was in the 1890's, I believe the answer is no. Ross St in Dandenong was possibly named after H.M.Ross who seemed to be a prominent Dandenong citizen circa 1890.

The following, written in my DROMANA, ROSEBUD AND MILES AROUND ON TROVE before I joined FAMILY TREE CIRCLES, was discovered while I was searching in that unfinished work for other information.

JAMES ROBERTSON BOAG. (Argus 18-8-1903 page 1) James Robertson Boag died at his residence Melrose, Dromana, on the 17th of August. He had come from Milnathort, Kinross-shire, Scotland. Colin says that he was born in 1830. He ran the towns first dairy. James owned allotment 11 of section 1 Kangerong, consisting of 88 acres 2 roods and 32 perches, and bounded by Palmerstone Ave and Boundary Rd, with its width indicated by Heath Rd.
(Mornington Standard 23-5-1905 page 5.) Miss Annette Ross Boag, eldest daughter of Mrs Boag of Melrose Dromana married Mr H.W.Wainwright of Western Australia at the Dromana Presbyterian Church. There is a full report of the wedding on page 2 of the 1-4-1905 issue. How did they fit so many guests in at Melrose for the reception? A Mrs Catherine Wainwright who was running the Arthurs Seat Hotel in 1887 must have been a widow and seems to have married William Allison within a year. Annette Boag must have fallen for Wainwright while they performed in the Dromana Comedy Company in 1896. Peninsular lads flocked to West Aussie in droves in the 1890s as work was zero here because of the depression but plentiful there because of their gold rush. Nine years later, it seems that Annette and her husband were living in Bendigo, when William, a twin, died at the age of 17 months. (Argus 5-8-1914 page 1.) He was the son of H.M. and A.R. Wainwright (A.R. obviously being Annette Ross, although someone has given the wrong second initial for hubby and I think it would have been the Standard which commonly called S.S.Crispo Crisp.) The grandparents were Mrs R.T.Boag and Mrs W.Allison.

janilye, Neil Mansfield and John Shorten deserve an ORDER OF AUSTRALIA award!

Family historians are the salt of the earth. They are always ready to help each other out and much of the information in my local history has come from them with great enthusiasm. However some go way beyond the call of duty! janilye typifies that breed. She showed me how to save countless hours and seems to spend half her life clarifying confusion for other researchers.

Neil Mansfield wrote the incredible THE DAVID MANSFIELD STORY, produced detailed records of Bulla Cemetery and volunteered to improve the graphics in some of my histories.

John Shorten is more of a local historian but scanned the first (handwritten) 2500 pages of my DICTIONARY HISTORY OF TULLAMARINE which was produced to give family historians detailed information about their ancestors. Both Neil and I have been supplied with files by John, who helped Neil with the Bulla Cemetery records.

You might want to nominate others and explain why. How about it, Australian members of family Tree Circles. Too many awards for history go to ego -trippers; it's about time these fantastic people quietly working behind the scenes were recognised.

5 comment(s), latest 1 year, 6 months ago

JIM QUINLIVAN, ROSEBUD, (VIC., AUST.) CARRIED ON.

Ja (Jim) Quinlivan
Notice

QUINLIVAN
JA (Jim)
A final tribute to our respected member who passed away on April 5, 2014.
LEST WE FORGET
Carry On Victoria
Published in The Age on Apr. 9, 2014

QUINLIVAN, James (Jim)
QUINLIVAN. James (Jim). On Apr. 5, 2014, aged 87 years. Dearly loved husband of Grace and loving father of Peter (dec. ), Catherine, Dianne, Patricia and David (dec. ). In Our Hearts Forever Late RAAF Member Carry On Vic. for 29 years
Obituaries
Published in Herald Sun on 07/04/2014

Supporting Notices
QUINLIVAN. James. Rest in peace Uncle Jim Deepest sympathy to Aunty Grace and family. Pat, Ron and Robyn and families.
Obituaries
Published in Herald Sun on 09/04/2014
QUINLIVAN. Jimmy. Passed away Apr. 5, 2014, aged 87 years, after a long, serious illness. Jim was a good bloke, fine tradesman and a loyal Union Member, well liked by all who knew him. Sincere condolences to his wife Grace and daughters. Farewell old mate Rest in peace Your friends, Terry and Denise Boseley.
Obituaries
Published in Herald Sun on 09/04/2014
QUINLIVAN. J. A. (Jim). A final tribute to our respected member who passed away on Apr. 5, 2014. LEST WE FORGET Carry On Victoria.
Obituaries
Published in Herald Sun on 09/04/2014

QUINLIVAN. James. 157788 The President, Committee and Members of the Rosebud RSL Sub-Branch regret the passing of the respected friend and member James. Deepest respect to the family.
Obituaries
Published in Herald Sun on 08/04/2014


QUINLIVEN (sic) UNITS. (P.7, Southern Peninsula News, 21-10-2014.)
A man described as "integral to the history of Rosebud in his enduring efforts to support the veteran community" was honoured on Sunday.

The dedication of the Carry On units at Clacton Divide recognised "the efforts of one man, Jim Quinlivan,in raising more than $400 000 towards their construction."

"Without Jim's efforts,the units at Clacton Divide would never have come to fruition," Carry On executive officer (Victoria) Colin Wardrop said.

"We honour his role as recognition of what can be done when you have a vision."

The units were named 'Carry On (Victoria) Jim Quinlivan Units'.

The not-for-profit organisation has supported the veteran community for more than 82 years and has a strong affiliation and working relationship with both the R.S.L. and Legacy (Vic), Mr Wardrop said.

It provided support in housing,education (secondary and tertiary) and welfare assistance to veterans and their families in times of need.

I'd never heard of Jim Quinlivan before I saw the above article today. I'd read about the council taking ownership of the more inland portion of the Clacton-on-Sea estate because of unpaid rates and cooperating with Carry On to build the estate. Emphasis was placed on the council officer who oversaw the project and I don't recall even one mention of Jim Quinlivan.


CARRY ON ( Victoria ) - Rosebud Branch
www.carryonvictoria.org.au/branches_detail.php?ID=4


CARRY ON ( Victoria ) - Rosebud Branch
Carry On has had supporters on the Mornington Peninsula from the earliest days of the Club.

Many ex-servicemen living on the Peninsula were in needy circumstances, and after the Branch office-bearers convinced the Carry On Board of this situation it provided the motivation which has resulted in this Branch becoming an extremely active group.

One of the consequences has been the construction of Homes for the Aged Units in Rosebud. These ten units were built in two stages between 1989 and 1994.

The Branch also recruited very well in the 1980s, attracting local identities Alan Gray, Alex Bennett, John Davidson, Col Adamson, Les Parkin, Jim Quinlivan and Don Warford to join the organisation.

Because of the quality and enthusiasm of these members the branch has been very active since its establishment.

Good relationships have been established with the local newspapers which give coverage to Carry On activities such as Golf Days, Bowls Carnivals and the giving of Christmas hampers to needy families.

Great support has also been obtained from service and sporting clubs, businesses, local communities and the Local Shire Council on the Southern Peninsula.

A further role of the branch is assisting with the management of the Homes for the Aged units at Rosebud, where they select tenants, monitor their needs, attend to maintenance and minor repairs, and report to the Board on any major problems that may arise.


On 23 October at 1100 we are dedicating... - Carryon-victoria
https://www.facebook.com/CarryOnVictoria/posts/1585995661622175
Carryon-victoria
October 9 at 12:40pm ·
On 23 October at 1100 we are dedicating our Clacton Divide Rosebud Units in memory of Jim Quinlivan who passed away after a poor health on 5 April 2014. Jim was very well known in the Rosebud area for his fund raising endeavours to build units for Veterans in Rosebud. There is a local myth within the precincts of the Rosebud business district that the business owners would close up shop or hide when Jim cam a calling because he was chasing them for another donation. In fairness Jim Quinlivan raised over $440K towards the construction of the units. Lest we Forget his contribution to his Service mates. A true champion.


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Anthony Edward McKenzie. Jim was a Gentleman and the dedication in his memory is a wonderful thought. Well done. Vice President, Peninsula Young Veterans Well Being Centre.

SOME PEOPLE DESERVE EVERY BIT OF LUCK THEY GET AND JIM WAS CERTAINLY ONE.

Rosebud Man Ain't Half Lucky
by AdoptionNews on 19 Aug 2008 07:46 AM Category: Search & Reunion (http://www.morningtonpeninsulaleader.com.au)
Jim Quinlivan can barely wipe the smile off his face. More than 50 years after discovering he was adopted, Mr Quinlivan, 81, has found two half-sisters and another big family...

3 comment(s), latest 4 months, 1 week ago