kerbent on Family Tree Circles
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Walter Todman is my great grandfather. He lived most of life in Victoria, Australia. It appears he was possibly born in Essex, England and migrated to Australia sometime before 1891 when he married Martha Sarah Ellis in the All Saints Church, East St Kilda, Victoria, Australia. He died suddenly of acute heart failure in 1929 at around 63. Who Walter's parents were is not clear
Before his marriage where and who Walter is almost a complete mystery.
However in my quest to find my grandfather I have found two possible Walter Todmans who could in fact be the same person.
In 1890 a Walter Todman registered a patent in NSW for shearing equipment. In 1892 a Walter Todman is getting married to a Martha Sarah Ellis in Victoria.
The question then becomes are these two Walters the same person?
I have been unable to find either of them coming into Australia nor what happened to the Walter Todman who started off in NSW.
My research so far has focused on the following
Establishing where my great grandfather Walter Todman was born through his childrens birth certificates:-
1894 on his daughter's Martha's birth certificate he was born in Essex, England
1895 on his daughter's Ivy Florence birth certificate he was born in Stepheney, London
1897 on his son's Walter Victor birth certificate he was born in Surrey, England
1903 on his daughter's Hazel May's birth certificate he was born in Essex, England
1906 on his son's Lincoln James birth certificate he was born in Essex, England
1908 on his daughter's Charlotte Mary birth certificate he was born in Norfolk, England
1910 on his daughter's Alma Dudley birth certificate he was born in Norfolk, England
On all birth certificates the informant was Martha Todman, mother (& Walter's wife); although the place listed for the fathers (Walter's) birth is always different his age is always consistent with being born in 1866.
A second Walter Todman?
There is a Walter Todman who fathered a Walter Todman in 1890 in New South Wales Australia with a Jane Levey. This Walter Todman was born in Norfolk, England who was 25 years old at the time therefore being born c 1865. A possible match for my Walter. (note Walter and Jane were not married)
The address listed was 9 Bailey Street, Newtown
Pros as to why this might be the same person as my Walter Todman
* the potential birth date of both Walter's is almost the same
* Norfolk is listed as one of the possible birth places of our Walter and is listed as the birth place of this second Walter Todman
* He is also a blacksmith
[We have been unable to find the marriage or death of a Jane Levey or her son Walter Todman in N.S.W or Vic; perhaps Jane did marry or take some elses name and changed her son's name to that surname also?]
[Efforts to try and establish whether these two Walter Todman's are the same person
I have tried to locate the Walter Todman in NSW after/before 1892 particularly at 9 Bailey Street, Newtown. By following his movements I was hoping that we would be able to distinguish between the two Walter's if they weren't the same person
Records that we consulted while in NSW were:-
1. 1891 NSW Census - taken on 16th April 1891. 9 Bailey Street Newtown was uninhabited. This could indicate a number of things, that after Walter Todman son of Jane Levey and Walter Todman was born the couple moved from the house either together or separately.
2. Sydney Sands Postal Directory - 1888 - 1890 did not list a Walter Todman at any location. In 1890 the person living at 9 Bailey Street, Newtown was Miss Mary A Currey. This could mean that Miss Currey lived by herself or was incharge of a boarding house or ??. If the dwelling was a boarding house or similar Walter and/or Jane could have lived there as well. There were Todmans listed in the Directory including a George F Todman and in 1890 a Herman Todman, neither of these were living near Newtown.
3. In the Sands Directories: Sydney and New South Wales, Australia 1891 there was a Walter Todman listed at 9 Bailey Street, Newtown, New South Wales, Australia
3. Electoral Role 1889 - 1890 no Walter Todman listed. In 1889 a George Todman was listed (not mine as far as I can establish)]
A Jane Todman shows up on Sand and Macdougall directory in Coburg, Victoria in 1907 only. This may only be a coincidence - but if this was infact Jane Levy, her son Walter would have been about to turn 18 perhaps she had appeared to collect his share of his inheritance or something.
*why would you call a second son by the same name? i.e. Walter Victor Todman by the same name as your first son?
With a bit of luck someone can give me a clue on where I should head next or perhaps even have further information to help shed light on the mystery.
William Bassett and Jane Mathews were married on the 13 September 1783 in the Madron parish church, and had the following children christened in the same church:-
1. 4 Jan 1784 Anne d/o William Basset at Madron I am not sure what happened to Anne
2. 11 Sep 1785 Francis s/o William Bassett, pauper at Madron was working as a farmer until he became convicted of stealing and was transport to Australia. He was married to Ann Carbis who did not emigrate to Australia. Her husband along with her brother William and father were convicted of stealing and transported to Australia
3. 20 Jan 1788 William s/o William Bassett, pauper at Madron may have been buried on 27 October 1799 in Gulval, Cornwall the entry in the Gulval Church register reads:- October William Bassett of Penzance .. .. .. 27th
4. 5 Sep 1790 John s/o William Bassett, pauper at Madron migrated to Australia in 1852, who married Martha Carbis in in 1812, along with his wife and most of his married children
5. 8 Mar 1792 Mary d/o William Basset, pauper at Madron private baptism" was buried as an infant on 18 February 1793 as a pauper in Madron
6. 9 Mar 1794 Mary d/o William Basset, pauper at Madron
7. 13 Mar 1796 James s/o William Bassett, pauper at Madron was buried as an infant on 16 September 1797 as a pauper in Madron
8. 17 Feb 1798 Hanna d/o William Basset, pauper at Madron private baptism
9. 23 Mar 1800 Jane d/o William Basset at Madron private baptism was buried as a 12 year old on 12 Aug 1810 as a pauper in Madron
The male descendants have been a lot easier to follow up. In 1812 when Francis Bassett with others committed a crime and the scandal went on for about three years, off and on in the newspapers, I know my direct ancestor, John Bassett b.1790 moved out of the area with his wife which is what his surviving sisters may have done.
So at present I would like to discover what happened to
1. Anne Basset christened 1784
2. Mary Basset christened 1792
3. Hanna Bassett christened 1798
I also havent been able to trace the burials and/or deaths of either William Bassett or Jane Bassett nee Matthews who could have both possibly been born around 1762.
Any help would be much appreciated.
David Bogie was the father of Hannah Bogie.
David Bogie and Isable Fyffe
The couple married on 30 Jul 1813 in Dysart, Fife, Scotland,according to the Dysart Old Parish RegisterS both groom and bride were identified as being of this Parish, Dysart. Unfortunately no parents were given for either party.
So now I'm trying to work out who David Bogie's parents were.
The only census that David Bogie appears in the 1841 where he is 50 (his wife was a widow in the 1851 census) which means that he could have been born between 1787 and 1791 as the ages were rounded down to the nearest 5. So he could have been anywhere between 50 and 54 years old and according to the entry in the Church marriage register he came from the parish of Dysart so I assume that he was most likely born there.
Doing a search on the IGI there are three David Bogie's that meet these parameters:-
1.Birth: 25 MAR 1790 , Christening: 28 MAR 1790 St. Andrews And St. Leonards, Fife, Scotland Parents:- DAVID BOGIE & ELIZABETH MCKAY
2. Birth: 15 JAN 1791, Christening: 16 JAN 1791 Kirkcaldy, Fife, Scotland. Parents: JAMES BOGIE & AGNES ANDERSON
3.Birth: 03 MAY 1792 Leslie, Fife, Scotland Parents: ROBERT BOGGIE & JANNET CURRER
DAvid's occupation was a msaon according to the 1841 census.
Does anyone recongnise these couples and know their families maybe through a process of elimination I can work out who my David Bogies parents are.
Interested to talk to anyone with connections to these families.
Hopefully somebody can help - There has been a fair amount of confusion around who the parents of my John Bassett who was born in England and died in Victoria, Australia. I would value any help that could help me (and other descendants) get over this brick wall. I've tried to lay out the logic of my conclusion so that others might be able to show me where I'm wrong or perhpas an altervative way of approaching the same problem
Sandra from down under in Australia
When was John Bassett Snr Born?
On John Bassett's death certificate (died in Eaglehawk) in 1868 his age was 80 (birthdate would then be 1788)
In the 1841 census he was listed as being aged 50 born possibly in 1787-91
In the 1851 census he was listed as being aged 60 born possibly born in 1791
In the 1861 census he was listed as being aged 70 born possibly born in 1791
On his death certificate is states that was 80 years old when he died in 1868 which would have made his birth date 1788
From the above evidence it would seem that John Basset was probably born between 1788 and 1790.
Possible Candidates for the position of our John Bassett
John Bassett christened 27 March 1788, St Izzey, Cornwall his parents were William Bassett and Mary Symons. This John Bassett however died 7th Oct 1851 in Fairwater House, Taunton Somerset. John was a lunatic confined to Fairwater House Lunaic Asylum for many years admitted July 1828 having previously been a patient at a similar establishment near Tauton, Fivehead House since 25 Oct 1822. This was a wholesale move and transfer of licence from the one to the other asylum by the same surgeon/owner. Private patient. Cause of death peritonitis and effusion in the chest (Somerset RO 1/5/87)
John Bassett christened 5 September 1790, Madron, Cornwall Unfortunately only one parent is given, the father, to a William Bassett according to the Madron Parish records see below http://madronparishrecords.tripod.com/id24.html
"5 Sep 1790 John s/o William Bassett, pauper at Madron"
This could be MY John Bassett however on his death certificate it stated that John Bassett's parents were farmers (which may or may not be accurate), if his parents were farmers it is unlikely they would have been listed as paupers on his christening record.
Any one got any ideas?
Abraham Jacka was baptised 4 May 1769, St Sithney, Cornwall, England son of Thomas Jacka and Elizabeth Gilbert.
I have assumed that Abraham didn't die as either a child or a bachelor (my direct ancestor is Abrahams older brother, Thomas). Abraham was also listed as one of the legatees in his fathers will in 1796
There are two possible marriages for Abraham:-
1795 to Eliza George in St. Buryan
1796 to Anne Mildrum in St. Hillary
Initially I favoured Eliza George as Abrahams parents had come from St. Buryan which would possible allow a connection for the young people to happen between the parishes allowing an opportunity for the couple to meet.
I am hoping that someone recognises one or more of the above marriages so that I can narrow down the possibilities to one marriage or discount them both.
Thomas Crump is my brickwall.
Thomas was born circia 1815, in Kent England. His first marriage, partiuclars of first marriage unknown according to his Australian death certificate,. was pre-1850 as this is when he married his second wife on the 30 Dec 1850 in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia, Selina Wheeler, who was 19 years his junior. Thomas lived in Victoria, Australia for 32 years before he died.
It is thought that he may have imigrated to Australia on MARQUIS OF HASTINGS a private ship arriving on the 11 Oct 1841 in Botany Bay, this has yet to be verified.
I have not been able to find any record of his first marriage in Australia.
He may have been married in England before he came out to Australia. Presumably his first wife died or was deserted when he came out, as it is believed he travelled alone.
Thomas was a brickmaker, he lived and worked in and around Melbourne.
Let me know if there is a connection, I have found the Crump line a very difficult nut to crack.