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Looking for Thomas Dutton who died in 1858

Below is Mary Ann Dillon's second marriage, she was previously married to Thomas Dutton, who according to the 2 transcribed marriage certificates below he appears to have died in 1858.

I have not been able to find his death, according to the Victorian BDM site he did not die in Victoria, Australia

Would love to make contact with anyone who has any information on Thomas Dutton or his wife or only surviving child Catherine Dutton.

Transcription of Marriage Certificate for Mary Ann Dutton to John Edwards 1868
Citation:- Victorian Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages, Marriage Certificate Mary Ann Dutton & John Edwards, Mary Ann Dutton & John Edwards, 4649 yr 1868

When & Where- Fifteenth October 1868 Registrars Office Geelong
Name and Surname of Parties Groom- John Edwards
Name and Surname of Parties Bride - Mary Ann Dutton
Condition of Parties Groom - Bachelor
Condition of Parties Bride - Widow 1858
Children by each former marriage Groom-
Children by each former marriage Bride - 1 living 3 dead
Birth Place Groom - Liverpool England
Birth Place Bride - London
Rank or Profession Groom - Fisherman
Rank or Profession Bride -
Age Groom - 42
Age Bride - 41
Residence Present Groom - Little Ryrie St Geelong
Residence Usual Groom - Little Ryrie St Geelong
Residence Present Bride - Little Ryrie St Geelong
Residence Usual Bride - Little Ryrie St Geelong
Parents Names Grooms Father - William Edwards
Parents Names Grooms Mother includes maiden name - Sarah Walker
Parents Names Bride Father - John Dillon
Parents Names Bride Mother includes maiden name - Catherine Kelly
Fathers Rank or Profession Groom - Joiner
Fathers Rank or Profession Bride - Sugar Baker
Married by - James Duncan
Married at Registrar of Marriages Office at Geelong
Marriage solemnised according to the rites of - Schedule B
Groom signature present - yes
Brides signature present - yes
Witness 1 - Mary Bowells
Witness 2 - unable to read

The First Marriage for Mary Ann Dillon was in England

Transcription of Marriage certificate of Mary Ann Dillon & Thomas Henry Dutton
Citation:- General Register Office, England, Marriage Certificate Thomas Henry Dutton & Mary Ann Dillon (Quarter 1 Year 1848 Vol 2 Page 173)

1848 Marriage solemnized at the Parish church in the Parish of St Giles with Cripplegate in the city of London
When Married - Feb 22
Name and Surname Groom - Thomas Henry Dutton
Name and Surname Bride - Mary Ann Dillon
Age Groom - Full
Age Bride - Full
Condition Groom - Drover
Condition Bride -
Residence at the Time of Marriage Groom - 17 Green Hills Rents
Residence at the Time of Marriage Bride - White Cross St
Father's name and surname Groom - William Dutton
Father's name and surname Bride - John Dillon
Rank or Profession Father Groom - White Smith
Rank or Profession Father Bride - Sugar Baker
Married in the Parish Church according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church by banns by m? H.B. Foster
This Marriage was solemnized between us Thomas Henry Dutton X Mary A Dillon in the presence of us James Barttam X Mary Barttam

Post Edited and Updated 28/12/2015

4 comment(s), latest 4 months, 1 week ago

Lookup at Sandgate Cemetery, Newcastle, New South Wales,Australia

Edwin Knight JACKA
Death: 4 Jun 1929 - Hamilton, New South Wales, Australia
Burial: 6 Jun 1929 - Sandgate Cemetery, Newcastle, New South Wales,Australia

Is anyone able to visit or do a look up for Sandgate Cemetery for Edwin Knight JACKA and to find out if his grave as a headstone.
Any help would be great appreciated

Thanks, Sandra

2 comment(s), latest 4 years, 3 months ago

Martha Carbiss parents and her family of Origin

Martha Carbis is my 3 x great grandmother, on her Australian death certificate it states that her fathers name was Richard Carbis and her Mother was Ann unknown. Her father was a Mariner according to the death certificate. Martha married my 3 x great grandfather in 1812 in Paul, Cornwall.

As death certificates are not a reliable source of information, John Carbis (from the U.K) who runs the One Name Society Data for Carbis World Wide, was contacted as another possible source of information. He had in his possession the Marriage Banns entry for John Bassett and Martha Carbis of Paul Parish. On inspection of the Banns entry it was discovered that one of the witnesses on the Banns was a Daniel Drew.
Further research was then conducted to try and find a Carbis family whose mothers maiden name was Drew. When searching the IGI I used the First name of Ann married to a man with the surname Carbis to look for possible children. Eventually I found a William Carbis who had married an Ann Drew who had amongst their children a Martha Carbis who had the same year of birth as my 3xgreatgrandmother.

William Carbis and Ann Drew had six children
i. Ann Drew CARBIS (1784- )
ii. Jane CARBIS (1786- )
iii.William CARBIS (1789- )
iv. Martha CARBENCE (1792- )
v. Martha CARBIS (Cir 1793-1882) (my 3xgreatgrandmother)
vi. Richard CARBIS (1797- )

The idea that my 3xgreatgrandmother Marthas father was William Carbis rather than Richard Carbis is supported by the following 3 points:

1.The change of her fathers christain name was an attempt to hide family Convict connections.
A family story through the generations was that one of the early Bassett brothers (which generation this concerned was not clear) was charged for horse stealing in Cornwall but managed to escaped to France/America and was never caught. Following this lead led us to look for some evidence of criminal activity.

In an article that appeared in the The West Briton and Cornwall Advertiser and another article on the 7th April 1815 in the Royal Gazette on the 22nd April 1815 it appears that William Carbis Marthas father was involved in sheep stealing in 1813.
William Carbis, sen. William Carbis jun. and Francis Bassett, a father, son and son-in-law, were indicted for stealing two ewe sheep belonging to Miss Borlase, of Madron, in December 1812
"The bill" was found by the Grand Jury in the Crown Bar durring the Lent Assizes in 1813. However the proceedings were the all the accused had absconded. According to a report in the "West Briton & Cornwall Advertiser", when the constables went to arrest them they were unable to execute their warrants, as all three men had gone to sea.

The real story turned out to be much more interesting than the family ledgend after all.

Based on the newspaper story we were able to to link Martha together with her family as demonstrated below

William Carbis (in the newspaper refered as William Carbis sen.) who had six children with his wife Ann Drew
i. Ann Drew CARBIS (1784- ) who married Francis Bassett brother of the husband of his sister John Bassett (in the newspaper refered to William Carbiss son-in-law)
ii. Jane CARBIS (1786- )
iii.William CARBIS (1789- ) (in the newspaper refered to William Carbiss son-in-law)
iv. Martha CARBENCE (1792-)
v. Martha CARBIS (Cir 1793-1882) my Martha Carbis who married John Bassett brother of Francis
vi. Richard CARBIS (1797- )

This probably wasnt her fathers first fray into criminal activity (as Martha got married 9 months before this event took place) and perhaps the shame was so great for Martha that she changed her fathers name using her youngest brothers first name so she wouldnt forget the white lie. The white lie helped to distance herself from her fathers misdeeds(?). Once in Australia people were unaware of her families criminal and convict connections and only a vague tale of horse theft remained atributed to no-one in particular as a small reminder of what had been left behind.

2. Naming Patterns of the times as explained below were common practice between 1700 and 1875. Both the Carbis and Bassett families seem to have used them as evidenced by certain names recurring down through the generations. Using these patterns working back from the children of John Bassett and Martha Carbis it is quite possible that Marthas fathers name is William Bassett.

Naming Patterns 1700-1875
The first Son was named after the fathers father (Marthas oldest son is John)
Second son named after mothers father (Marthas second son is William)
Third son named after the father
Fourth son named after fathers eldest brother
First daughter named after mothers mother
Second daughter named after fathers mother
Third daughter named after mother
Fourth daughter named after mothers eldest sister
Exceptions to the pattern occur when the naming system produced a duplication of names.
In that case ,the name was taken from the next on the list.
Another break in the pattern could be caused by a death.
If a child died in infancy, then the parents would name the subsequent new born the same name

Taken from: Tracing your Origins. By Angus Baxter.

3. The informant for the death certificate was not a family member, and would not have knowledge of the background of Martha Bassett nee Carbis.

Based on the above evidence I have come to the conclusion that Marthas parents were most likely William Carbis and Ann Drew of the Paul Parish, Cornwall.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has anything to add to my conclusions or wishes to dispute them. It would be great to add something more. Establishing connections between families and generations is very challenging, its very easy to make jumps in logic before i've realised what I'm doing.

3 comment(s), latest 5 years, 5 months ago

Martha Todman vs Walter Todman - a marital maintenance case.

Walter and Martha married on 16 Jan 1892 in All Saints Church, Saint Kilda, no address was given for Martha at the time, but Walter was living in Hawthorn according to the marriage certificate. From the time of his marriage, and for the birth of his first two children Walter worked as a blacksmith. Their eldest daughter, Martha Todman (later known as Ruby) arrived on 24th December in 1894 at the Women's hospital.

On the 14th September 1895 Walter Todman and his wife welcomed Ivy Florence Todman into the world. Life must have changed dramatically for the family by 1895, with 2 small children life must have been busy for the Todman household. The family had been living at 27 Arthur St, South Yarra, Victoria when Ruby was born. During the intervening 18 months between their first and second child the family had shifted to 3 Palmero Place, South Yarra , They may have also resided at Hancock St, South Melbourne for a short time as well.

Walter was still pursuing his inventions and continued to register new patents. In April 1894 he made an application for a patent for "an improved machine for saving gold" In October 1895 Walter was granted a patent for "An improved automatic check for venetian blinds." . He appears to have left his occupation as a Blacksmith and is working as a casual waiter perhaps to allow more time to focus on his inventions. But October 1895 saw the last of his applications for patents, earlier in that year in January he had even abandoned one.

Things appear to have hit boiling point for Martha as we next find the couple in the Prahran Police Court . Martha alleges that her husband Walter Todman left "her without any means of support at South Yarra on the 3rd inst." December, 1895. She had two children and "her husband was a job waiter and earned about 11 pound a month. Her parents were in England." The couple had a violent domestic argument, resulting in Walter being struck with a poker . It was resolved by the court an order being issued "for a I pound a week maintenance, and one surety of 25 pounds to be found for a due observance" She has been quoted as saying "her husband, who was a waiter, was in the habit of handing her his earnings each week, but on Sunday week be refused to give her any money, and since then she could not live with him on account of his temper and disgusting language."

After all this angst and excitement things appear to settle at least for the next few years until 1901.

For sources see Originally published at Link: Sandra's Ancestral Research Journal on the 4 October 2015

Mary NANCE Born Perranzubla, Cornwall, England Died Chewton, Victoria, Australia

Does anyone recognize the family of Mary Nance?
Parents Thomas Nance & Rebecca
Birth: 1805 - Perranzubla, Cornwall, England, UK
Death: 15 Aug 1878 - Chewton, , Victoria, Australia
Burial: 18 Aug 1878 - Chewton Cemetery, Chewton, , Victoria, Australia
1. She appeared on the census in 1841 in Wheal Hope, Perranzabuloe,England, United Kingdom.
1. Hezekiah Bennets, aged 20
2. Mary Bennets, aged 25
3. Mary Bennets, aged 1

2. She appeared on the census in 1851.
1. Hezekiah Bennets, aged 33, miner
2. Mary Bennets, aged 39
3. Nancey Bennets, aged 8
4. Rebecka Bennets, aged 2

3. Immigrated: 22 Jan 1856. the ship Australia leaving from Plymouth October 14th.arriving in South Australia on the 22 Jan 1856. (The South Australian Government Gazette 1866 p. 91 )
Listed under families
Bennets / Bennetts
Hezekiah 36 Miner 114/1 Perranzabuloe, Cornwall with family
Mary (George) 45
Rebecca 5
Mary 1
Listed under Single Women
Bennets / Bennetts Nancy 14 Servant 114/1 Perranzabuloe, Cornwall with parents

1. First marriage - Henry George 19 Dec 1836 - Kenwyn, Cornwall, England

2. Second marriage Hezekiah Bennetts (1818 - 26 Jan 1900) 1839 - Perranzabube, Cornwall, England, UK
1. Mary Bennetts (Cal 1840- )
2. Unknown Bennetts ( - )
3. Mary Jane Bennetts (Est 1842-Bef 1878)
4. Nancy Bennetts (Est 1842-Bef 1900)
5. Rebecka Bennetts (Est 1849-1912)
6. Mary Anne Bennetts (Est 1852-Bef 1878)

My Bassett Family from Cornwall to Australia

The Pattern of Arrival
After initial research it appeared that John Bassett first came out to Australia in 1861 as part of a larger family group on the SS Great Britain (Voyage 21) which arrived in Melbourne on the 23rd Dec 1861. He arrived with wife Martha, and daughters Ann Davey and Martha Rowe, their husbands and children and soon to be daughter-in-law Eleanor Symons.
The passenger list shows that on Board were in the following groupings, the comments in the brackets were not on the passenger list but are my own musings
(Group 1)
1. John Bassett, aged 70
2. Mrs M Bassett, aged 65
3. Miss Samions, aged 27 9 (should read Symons, and soon to be wife of James Bassett)
(Group 2)
4. Mrs Ann Davey, aged 35 (formerly Bassett)
5. Elizebeth Davey, aged 16
6. Jane Davey, aged 18
7. John Davey, aged 12
8. Stephen Davey, aged 9
(Group 3)
9. James Rowe, aged 38
10. Mrs Rowe, aged 32 (formerly Martha Bassett)
11. Julia Rowe, aged 8
12. Martha Rowe, aged 5
13. Nanney Rowe, aged 1

After a little more digging it appears that at least John Bassett (Snr) and John Bassett (Jnr) made several trips backwards and forwards between Australia and England before being joined by the rest of the extended family. The idea that several members of the family commuted between Australia and England before the rest of the family arrived is supported by the following evidence:-
- a notation on a mining lease application made in Victoria, Australia for ground in Specimen Hill, Sailors Gully on the 4th Feburary 1861 which included the following special remarks that The applicant had been in possession of the ground for 5 years (Bendigo Lease Register, Department of Energy and . Registery of Applicationg) indicating that John Bassett was already mining in the area on this site in 1855.
- A reference to John Bassett in The Methodist History of Victoria and Tasmania: Originally published in the Spectator, Volume 2, 1998 onwards "Mr John Bassett, known as Grandfather Bassett, was a much-loved and esteemed local preacher and class-leader; also was Mr. T. Featonby and others, whose names cannot be erased by time, as their works follow them. Mr. Bassett was called Home at 80 years of age in 1869". After talking to Professor Ian Breward the archivist at the Uniting Church archives in Victoria Australia, Professor Breward felt that such terms of endearment indicated that John Bassett (Snr) must have arrived earlier than 1861 in Australia to be refered to as "a much-loved and esteemed local preacher".. This lead us to look further afield and we found a John Bassett on the Marco Polo 1853 which may have been our John Bassett accompanied by another John Bassett (Jnr). (The ages match perfectly). Listed on the passenger list were John Bassett, aged 53 & John Bassett, aged 32.
- It is interesting to note that one of the "family stories" is that John Bassett (Snr) was wealthy and bought over a lot Cornish miners; perhaps the story should be that he went backwards and forwards between Australia and Cornwall bringing across different family members until the whole family had migrated to Australia

Over a thirteen year period the entire family moved to Australia, it appears that almost all of John & Marthas family and their descendants came out to Australia.

The first firm record that we have of John Bassett (snr) and John Bassett (jnr) coming out to Australia is on the Marco Polo in May 1853

John Bassett (jnr) appears to re-entered Australia again in January 1854 on the Marco Polo perhaps after returning back to Cornwall with his father or alone.

The next group to arrive were to arrive on the Royal Charter in July 1857(VPRS 7666 Fiche Reference 127 Page 004)
John Bassett, 36 yrs, Miner, Son of John Bassett and Martha Carbis
Catherine Bassett, 33 yrs, Nee Davey sister to Stephen Davey
Francis Basset, 11 yrs, John and Catherine bought all their children with them
John Bassett, 10 yrs
Catherine Bassett, 8 yrs
Martha Bassett, 6 yrs
William Bassett, 40 yrs, Miner, Williams wife, Martha and his children arrived 1866 see below for details almost 11 years later.
Stephen Davey, Stephens wife Ann was left to follow in 4 years later with her parents John & Martha Bassett.

We know that John Bassett (Snr) - arrived with his wife and their two married daughters and their children on the SS Great Britain as outlined above

The final group to arrive in Australia was on the True Britain which departed in February 1866
1. Martha Bassett, 49 yrs wife William Bassett
2. Mary Bassett, 22
3. John Bassett, 12
4. Elizabeth Bassett, 15
5. Matilda J. Bassett, 17, according to my musings this is probably Martha Jnr
6. Nanny Bassett, 23

In summary the family migrated to Australia in the following order
John Bassett Snr came out multiple times
And Johns wife - Martha Bassett nee Carbis came out in 1861
When their children came out in the :
1. John Bassett (Abt 1814-1815) died in Cornwall before the family migrated
2. William Bassett (Cir 1816-1869) came out in 1857
3. John Bassett (1820-1865) came out multiple times
4. Francis Bassett (Cir 1823-1839) died in Cornwall before the family migrated
5. Anne Bassett (1826-1904) came out in 1861
6. Martha Bassett (Cir 1828-1907) came out in 1861
7. James Bassett (Cir 1832-Cir 1833) died in Cornwall before the family migrated
8. James Bassett (Cir 1833-1879) I have been unable to locate when James my 2x great grandfather came out to Australia
9. Samuel Bassett (1838-1839) died in Cornwall before the family migrated

Of their grandchildren I still have to locate what happened to the following individuals

William Bassett & Martha Moffatt
Nanny Bassett b. Cir 1841, St Erth, Penwith, Cornwall, England
William Norman Bassett b. 1845, Crowan, Cornwall, England

John Bassett & Catherine Davey
John Bassett b. Between Jun 1846 and Sep 1846, Cornwall, England
William Bassett b. Cir 1854
James Bassett b. Cir 1857

Anne Bassett & Stephen Davey
Ann Bassett Davey c. 15 Jan 1854, Crowan, Cornwall, England
Catherine Davey c. 4 Mar 1857, Crowan, Cornwall, England d. 1862?

Martha Bassett & James Rowe
Martha Bassett Rowe c. 1852, Breage, Cornwall, England
Henry B Rowe b. 1860

I would be interesting in contacting anyone been able to locate what happened to the above individuals particulary since it appears that everyone else would have migrated to Australia? I am presuming that they would have died in Cornwall but I am not sure.

I would also be interested in finding out when James Bassett (Cir 1833-1879) came out to Australia, the earliest record i have of him in Australia at present is in Aug 1859 when his name appears on a mining list with his two brothers John Bassett, William Bassett, and Stephen Davey his brother-in-law.

My EBBOTT BAKER connection in Tremaine, CORNWALL

In my quest ot verify the connection between several generations of my ancestoral (Baker/Ebbott) family I have hit a brick wall, although I have a transcript of a will from a book that clearly establishs the connection I have been unable to find the original copy to verify this information.

I have been able to locate my ancestors tombstone in the Tremaine Church yard in Cornwall and thanks to a distant travelling relative I also have a photo.

The tombstone reads :- Sacred / To the Memory of / John Ebbott of Westcott in this Parish / who finished his course May 29 1825 aged 73 years ./ ALSO in memory of WILMET his wife / Who departed this life on the 2? day of January 1845 / Aged 91 years

Further research on the IGI reveals that John Ebbot married Wilmot Baker on 26 Jun 1775 in the same church in which they were eventually burried.. (I have not yet viewed the original church record of the marriage)

According to the book "Our Cornish Heritage Genealogies of Reed, Rowe, Ebbott and related families Immigrants to Jefferson County, Wisconsin" by S.D.Reed, when Wilmets father, John Baker, died she inherited the family farm Westcott. The notion that the John Ebbott owned or at least lived on Westcott is reinforced by its mention on the his gravestone.

The inheritance is further confirmed by the transcription of John Bakers will, which according to S.D.Reed was proved on 23 October 1793 (page XI-22).

The will helps to verify three generations of the Baker-Ebbot lineage, by the use of such phrases as follows:-
Generation One
I, John Baker
my wife Margery Baker
Generation Two
son-in-law, John Ebbott
daughter Wilmot Ebbott (obviusly wife of John Ebbott)
Generation Three
grandson Phillip Ebbott
Elizabeth Ebbott

The picure that I have been able to build of John BAKERs descendants as outlined by his will (with the additional information from his gravestone. and other sources) is as follows.

First Generation
1. John BAKER was born circa 1730, died in Jul 1793 in Tremaine, Cornwall, at age 63, and was buried on 29 Jul 1793 in Tremaine Churchyard, Tremaine, Cornwall. John married Margery. Margery was born in 1731 and she was buried on 16 Aug 1815.
Children from this marriage were:

i. Wilmot BAKER was born in Feb 1752 in Tresmeer, Cornwall, christened on 4 May 1755 in Tremaine, , Cornwall, England, UK, died in 1845 in Cornwall, England, UK at age 93, and was buried on 2 Jan 1845.
ii. Mary BAKER

Second Generation
1. Wilmot BAKER married John EBBOT, son of Gregory EBBOTT and Dorothay UPTON, on 26 Jun 1775 in Tremaine, Cornwall, England.

Children from this marriage were:
i. Philip Upton EBBOTT was christened on 7 Feb 1776 in Tresmeer, Cornwall, England, United Kingdom, died on 20 May 1851 in Trerunmer, Tresmeer, Cornwall, England, United Kingdom at age 75, and was buried on 23 May 1851.
ii. Elizabeth EBBOTT was born on 30 Jan 1778 in Badharlick, Egloskerry, Cornwall, England, UK and was christened on 30 Jan 1778 in Tresmeer, Cornwall, England, United Kingdom.

3. Mary BAKER married John JOLIFFE
Children from this marriage were:
ii. Grace JOLIFFE
iii. Richard JOLIFFE

I am interested in making contact with any other Ebbott/Baker researchers. I am also interested in how to go about finding the original document of John Bakers will, any and all ideas welcome, I have done several searches (online) in the English archives but as yet have had no luck.


My Irish Williamsons

My 2x great grandfather John Williamson lived for 19 years in Victoria before he died, after emmigrating at the age of 23 in 1853/4 from England. His wife Louisa died in 1901. John & Louisa were married in Oct 1853 in England and migrated shortly afterwards to Australia. Both are buried in the St Kilda General Cemetery.

I had always assumed that they were of English origin so I was very surprised when I found that John, his parents and siblings were born in Belfast, Ireland. As I have been unable to find any record of them in the 1841 census I am assuming that left Ireland for England after 1841 and arrived before the 1851 census.

I was able to locate the family in the 1851, and although John came out to Australia before the 1861 census I was able to locate the remaining family members in England in the 1861 and 1871 census.

1851 (Series HO107 Piece: 2435; Folio: 561; Page: 11)
Wood Street, Maryport, Cumberland, England, UK
1. Thomas Williamson, aged 54, Dock labourer
2. Jane Williamson, aged 50,
3. John Williamson, aged 19, Tailor apprentice
4. James Williamson, aged 15, ship carpenter apprentice

1861 (Series RG9, Piece: 3942; Folio: 17; Page: 27)
Nelson Street, Maryport, Cumberland, England, UK
1. Thomas Williamson, aged 60 Labourer
2. Jane Williamson, wife aged 58
3. Jane Williamson, daughter aged 40 unmarried
4. James Williamson, son, aged 23, Ship carpenter
5. James Williamson, gson, aged 8, scholar

1871 (Series RG10, Piece: 5246; Folio: 77; Page: 35)
8 L Court, Nelson Street, Maryport, Cumberland, England, UK
1. Thomas Williamson, aged 70, labourer
2. Jane Williamson, aged 69

His younger brother must have moved out of home between the 1861 and 1871 census
As I found them in:
1871(Series RG10 Piece: 5246; Folio: 85; Page: 52 & 53)
Maryport, Cumberland, England, UK
1. James Williamson, aged 33, Shipwright, Labourer at present
2. Ann Williamson, aged 29
3. Mary Williamson, aged 6, scholar
4. Thomas Williamson, aged 3
5. Annie Williamson, aged 10 months

1881 (Series RG11, Piece: 5181; Folio: 95; Page: 4)
25 Collins Ter, Dearham, Cumberland, England, United Kingdom
1. James Williamson, aged 42, Foreman Of Blast Furnace
2. Annie Williamson, aged 38
3. Mary Williamson, aged 16, Pupil teacher
4. Thomas Williamson, aged 13, scholar
5. Annie Williamson, aged 10, scholar
6. John Williamson , aged 8, scholar
7. Jane Williamson, aged 6, scholar
8. James Williamson, aged 6mths
9. Elizabeth B. Cartmer, aged 17

1891 (Series RG12, Piece: 4306; Folio 20; Page 35)
1. James Williamson, aged 51
2. Annie Williamson, aged 20
3. James Williamson, aged 10

Johns father Thomas was born between 1797 and 1801 based on the various ages he gave in the 1851, 1861 and 1971 English Census. We think he died in 1872 in Whitehaven, Cumberland, England. There may have been more children who did not come out from Ireland with John and his parents Thomas and Jane when they came to England but I are not sure.

The question Is like to ask is how do I go about finding out about the family in Ireland. Im not sure where to start and with such common names as John, Jane, Thomas and James its difficult to know how to preceed.

It would be great to hear from anyone with any ideas, further information or even better still someone who has a connection with the family.


2 comment(s), latest 7 years, 7 months ago

My Lovell family were from Acton, Middlesex, and not from Compton Martin, Somerset, England as I had originally thought

When I began my research I had the parents of my Francis Lovell - William Lovell and Mary.
With nothing much more to go on I did a search in the census' and found a William and Mary Lovell in Compton Martin, Somerset, England. I decided to follow through on this line and in doing so found a whole clan of Lovell's living in the area but as I was to find out soon enough they weren't mine. Francis Lovell my direct connection to the family was nowhere to be found and far more elusive. Later I discovered that this was because I had unfortunately chosen the wrong family. The William and Mary I was looking for can be found in the Middlesex area of England(See below).

So now I am posting this new journal as a response to my own previous jounral about the Lovell family in Crompton Martin as way of correction. I'm still Interested in talking to anyone who might be related or want to share information.


William Lovell born about 1806 in Chalfont, Buckinghamshire, England and died: Jan Q 1870 - Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, England, United Kingdom

1841 Census
East Acton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom.
( HO107; Piece 687; Book: 2; Civil Parish: Acton; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 4; Folio: 22; Page: 11)
1. William Lovell, 40, Carman
2. Mary Lovell, 40
3. Ann Lovell, 15
4. William Lovell, 15
5. Francis Lovell, 13
6. Mary Lovell, 7
7. Sarah Borall 70
1851 Census
( HO107; Piece: 1699; Folio: 637; Page: 19)
East Acton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom.
1. William Lovell, head, married, 56, A??ing Laundry
2. Mary Lovell, wife, mar, 54, Laundress
3. Frank Lovell, son U, 23, Apresting lab
4. Mary Lovell, daughter, U, 17, Laundress
3. He appeared on the census in 1871 in Kensington Workhouse, Kensington,
London, England, United Kingdom. (6) William was an inmate, his occupation
was labourer.

William Lovell married Mary Field (Abt 1797 - Jul Q 1874) in 1823 - Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London, England, United Kingdom and they had four children that I know of:-
1. Ann Lovell (Abt 1826- )
2. William Lovell (Abt 1826- )
3. Francis Lovell (Abt 1829- )
4. Mary Lovell (Abt 1834- )

Narrowing on in on Walter Todman born 1866

I have looked at the census between 1871 and 1881 to find my man. Since he may have changed his name I have attempted to research the following combinations – Walter Todman, Walter Willoughby, James Todman & James Willoughby.

These names were chosen for the following reasons:-
* Walter Todman - he was known from 1890(i) when he applied for his patent using this name, and for the rest of his life including when he married Martha Sarah Ellis in 1892(ii) in Australia.
* Walter Willoughby & James Todman - based on information contained in a advertisement in a newspaper column for MISSING FRIENDS "Willoughby, or Todman (James), left Millwall in 1884; last letter from Sydney, N.S.W., in 1888. Mother asks."(iii)
* James Willoughby- the final permutation of the possible first and last names.

I have calculated his year of birth as 1866 +/2 yrs based on his children’s Australian birth certificates which gives the father’s age and birth place:-
* 1894(iv) on his daughter's Martha certificate his birth place was given as Essex, England
* 1895(v) on his daughter's Ivy Florence certificate his birth place was given as Stepheney, London
* 1897(vi) on his son's Walter Victor certificate his birth place was given as Surrey, England
* 1903(vii) on his daughter's Hazel May certificate his birth place was given as Essex, England
* 1906(viii) on his son's Lincoln James certificate his birth place was given as Essex, England
* 1908(ix) on his daughter's Charlotte Mary certificate his birth place was given as Norfolk, England
* 1910(x) on his daughter's Alma Dudley certificate his birth place was given as Norfolk, England
On all birth certificates the informant was Martha Todman, mother and Walter’s wife; although the place of birth is always different his age is always consistent with being born in 1866.

The date range for search has been confined to 1871 and 1881 as the 1871 census is the first census taken after his birth in 1866 +/- 2 years, and by 1891 as he was in Australia.
The outcome of my research at this stage has resulted in two likely candidates:-
* Walter Todman son of William Todman & Emily abt 1866 born in Milford, Surrey, England
* James L T Willoughby son of Charles Willoughby & Mary Ann born Surrey, England

Now to check that neither of them died before 1891.....

(i) "Patent Office Transactions," The Sydney Mail and New South Wales Advertiser, 27 December 1890, p. 1446, col. 3; digital images, TROVE ( : accessed 18 Oct 2015), The Sydney Mail and New South Wales Advertiser (NSW : 1871 - 1912).
(ii) Registry of Birth, Death and Marriages, Victoria, "Certificate of Marriage Walter Todman & Martha Ellis 16 January 1892 Reference# 345" (Original in family papers of Myrtle Sharp)
(iii) MISSING FRIENDS. (1901, April 13). Evening Journal (Adelaide, SA : 1869 - 1912), p. 6. Retrieved October 21, 2015, from
(iv) Registry of Birth, Death and Marriages, Victoria, Australia, Birth Certificate Martha Todman (Year 1894, #1801, Original a certified copy)
(v) Registry of Birth, Death and Marriages, Victoria, Australia, Birth Certificate Ivy Florence Todman (1895, Reference# 32737 Original a certified copy)
(vi) Registry of Birth, Death and Marriages, Victoria, Australia, Birth Certificate Walter Victor Todman (Year 1897, Reference# 31247 Original a certified copy)
(vii) Registry of Birth, Death and Marriages, Victoria, Australia, Birth Certificate Hazel May Todman (1903, #13749, Original a certified copy)
(viii) Birth Certificate Lincoln James Todman, 20 July 1906, Reference# 298, Registry of Birth, Death and Marriages, Victoria, Australia (Original a certified copy)
(ix) Registry of Birth, Death and Marriages, Victoria, Australia, Birth Certificate Charlotte Mary Todman (Year 1908, # 22796, Original a certified copy)
(x) Registry of Birth, Death and Marriages, Victoria, Australia, Birth Certificate Alma Dudley Todman (Year 1909, Reference# 6626 Original a certified copy)

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