margarms on Family Tree Circles
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Hi just wondering if you would mind if you can get any information on the above between
Samuel LUCAS B. 1821 Stoke Climsland, Cornwall and Mary Anne LUCAS (or similar spelling), B 1828 Cork, County Cork Ireland M 22 December 1845 at Westport, County Mayo.
It is believed that Samuel was in the Army but I have always wondered why she would go from Cork to Westport to wed. Further family beliefs state that she was from a Jewish family (spelling Lukis or similar) but I can find no evidence of this. Samuel and Mary Anne emigrated to New Zealand and after 5 years to Australia. Any assistance on this family would be most helpful and many thanks Marg
Update: Marriage Certificate found
Birth Death Marriage Genealogy Records Ireland - Irish Family History
Church Marriage Record
Date of Marriage: 29-Jan-1845
Parish / District: Oughaval RC parish County: Co. Mayo
Name: N. L. Lucas Mary Anne Lucas
Denomination: Roman Catholic Roman Catholic
Occupation: 65TH REGIMENT
Husband's Father Wife's Father
Name: Not Recorded Lucas Not Recorded Lucas
Husband's Mother Wife's Mother
Witness 1 Witness 2
Name: William N. L. Mary Campbell
1/0/0. GROOMS FIRST NAME EITHER SAMUEL OR DANIEL.
1 cup of self-raising imagination
Thyme (endless spoonful)
Sprinkles of ancestral curiosity
Pinches of opportunity
Flakes of serendipity
Intriguing title, cover and blurb
zest of reader research
half a litre of language including mixed fruit of adjectives (use moderately)
half a dozen embryonic ideas (egg shaped)
Slurp of suspense, secrecy or drama
dash of inspiration
Dash inspiration on all pages.
Mix all data and especially dry ingredients in computerised container. Keep for an appropriate time. Heat emotions or ice-over disputes. For special occasions, decorate and display at reunion, anniversary or family gathering.
Historical readaholic or relative indigestion due to over-much hot air.
From Hazel Edwards' Writing a Non-Boring Family History (Hale and Iremonger) 1997
My connection to the WHITMORE family is through my great grandmother who was Jessie Elizabeth TAYLOR nee WHITMORE.
It was in 1806 that James WHITMORE was born and after marrying Jessie UNKNOWN and living in London fathered two daughters, Elizabeth Eleanor b. 1845, Francis (Fanny) Louisa b. 1848.
Firstly Fanny met and married John Thomas TAYLOR b.1839 in Bury, Lancashire Eng d. 14 January 1866 of Bright's Disease and buried in the Kew Cemetery on the 16th January. He had worked as a dispenser (chemist) at the Royal Melbourne Hospital.
The 16 Jan. 1866 Argus death notice reads:
THE Friends of the late Mr. JOHN THOMAS TAYLOR, dispenser at the Melbourne Hospital, are respectfully invited to follow his remains to the place of Interment, Melbourne General Cemetery.
The funeral to move from his residence, 150 Stephen-street, THIS DAY, 16th inst., at 4 o'olock.
JOHN DALEY, undertaker, Latrobe and Spring street, Melbourne.
Before his death, Fanny had given birth to a daughter, Jessie Elizabeth TAYLOR, b. 5 September 1864 at 137 Johnson Street, Fitzroy Vic. Jessie later married William KNOPP (see KNOPP journal).
Next to marry was Elizabeth Eleanor (known as Eleanor) who married William Symonds DREWE on 27 May 1864. [Argus dated 27 May 1864] DREWE-WHITMORE.-On the 21st inst., by special licence, at the Scots Church, by the Rev. I. Heatherington, William Symonds, eldest son of the late William Drewe, late of Exeter, to Elizabeth Eleanor, eldest daughter of the late James Whitmore of London.
Eleanor and William had one daughter Jessie Cameron DREWE b. 1868 and d.1943 in Elsternwick, Vic.
No details of the other daughter named Jessie have come to light as yet (still researching).
Fanny next married Richard PETERSON, a miner on 7 April 1870 in Scots Church Melbourne. He passed away in 1890. He was born abt. 1837 in Schleswig Denmark.
Fanny accumulated great wealth in her lifetime dying in 1924. She is buried in the same plot as her son-in-law (William KNOPP d. 1914) at the Coburg Cemetery. She lived at 27 Blair Street, Coburg (which is now a block of flats) and married Charles DOHERTY 7 July 1891. He died in 1925. Fanny owned four other properties in and around the Coburg area as well as the hotel at Flowerdale on 250 acres of land and according to the census and her will, she had a lessee in the hotel at the time of her death, but was at the hotel in the late 1890s and married Charles there but returned to live in suburban Melbourne at a later date.
Elizabeth Eleanor DREWE nee WHITMORE died at 34 years old and was buried on 1st April 1879 at Melbourne General Cemetery.
THE Friends of Mr WILLIAM SYMONS DREWE are most respectfully invited to follow the remains of his late beloved wife to their last resting place, the Melbourne General Cemetery. The funeral procession is appointed to move from his residence, 48 Gertrude street, Fitzroy, THIS DAY, (Tuesday, the 1st), at a quarter to 4 o clock punctually.
WILLIAM GEORGE APPS, undertaker, corner of Fitzroy and Moor streets, Fitzroy [1 Apr 1879 Argus Funeral Notices]
Eleanor and William's daughter Jessie Cameron DREWE married William Albert CHERRY in 1900. They had the "Grandview" boarding house at the corner of Green and Symonds Sts, Healesville, Victoria, an establishment which is still used as holiday accommodation in Healesville.
Jessie Cameron CHERRY was, along with a solicitor, the executor of the will of her Aunt, Francis (Fanny) DOHERTY. Jessie and William had two children, William Drewe CHERRY b. 1902 and Jessie Eunice CHERRY b. 1907 d. 1995.
In researching my great great great grandmother I have uncovered a wealth of information and I am sure there will be more to add in times to come.
Eliza KNOPP b. 1827 Essex UK , arrived New York 1856 aboard Mormon ship "Caravan" with parents. Anyone know her marriage or death please. (I think she may have stayed in PA) Parents listed as going to Utah 1860.
Clara KNOPP [b.1888 Flowerdale, Vic d. 1946 in Wonthaggi, Vic] was my grandmother, the daughter of William KNOPP and Jessie Elizabeth nee TAYLOR. Clara was born and raised in Flowerdale, a small rural community north of Melbourne, Vic.
Clara was third born of twelve children and lost her mother in 1907 leaving Clara and her sister Florrie to care for the younger children, the youngest Norman being only 4 years old.
It is stated on Clara's Wedding Certificate that she was a Domestic Servant at Silver Creek which was an adjoining small community to Flowerdale, possibly at [Fanny Louisa WHITMORE] her grandmother's hotel. See Whitmore/Taylor journal.
It was on the 1st June 1910 that she married James Francis McDONALD at Flowerdale and on 17 August 1911 in Coburg, their first child was born, a son names James Douglas. He married Elsie May nee FLACK [b.abt. 1917] in 1933 and he and Elsie May (known as May) did not have any children. Both Jim and May died in 1961 in Wonthaggi and are buried at Bacchus Marsh.
The family were living in Ballan, Vic in 1915 when son Duncan Stewart was born on the 13 March and by 1918 the family were living at Waddell Street Bacchus Marsh, Vic when another son Leslie Francis was born 5 May 1918. Duncan married Joyce STEWART, had six children and separated. The six children were placed in orphanages. Duncan died in Wonthaggi in 2006 and Joyce died in Perth, WA around the same year.
Les married Shirley WHELAN and had one daughter. They lived all their married life at White Road, Wonthaggi Vic. Les was a Funeral Director. Shirley died early in 1971 and Les on the 5 August 1971, both at Wonthaggi and buried at Korumburra, Vic.
James and Clara were resident at the same address in the 1919 Census and it was said that James was a factory hand. John William was born at Bacchus Marsh on 22 November 1920. John (known as Jack) married May CHURCHILL and they had two children, a boy and a girl. Jack died in Dandenong, Vic in 1974.
Yet another son, Angus Andrew was born in 1925 at Bacchus Marsh and unfortunately died in 1929 from eating green apples and drinking water which fermented.
In 1928 on 7 April Jessie Elizabeth, my mother was born. She attended the Bacchus Marsh Catholic School until her mother Clara developed bad health and she went to live with her father's sister Sarah O'HALLORAN at Wonthaggi. Jessie first married Ronald Joseph NEWMAN on 5 April 1947 at Wonthaggi and had eight children, four boys and four girls.
Ron died of a heart attack on 29 July 1971 aged 49 years and is interred in the Wall of Remembrance at Springvale Crematorium in Melbourne, Vic. Jessie next married David Alexander HARBECK on 1 March 1990 and both are still living as at February 2011.
The James McDONALD family were still in Waddell Street, Bacchus Marsh in the 1931 Census but James had taken up farming at Mt Wallace by Census time in 1936 and 1937. Clara died 21 April 1946 aged 57 years.
James had moved to 13 Dowling Street, Wonthaggi, Vic sometime between 1937 and the 1949 Census.
James was 42 years of age when he married Clara  and was 59 and Clara 39 when Jessie was born. He was 81 years old in 1949 and stayed at 13 Dowling Street, still being there during the 1954 Census along with son John (Jack) and wife May and son James (Jim) and wife Elsie May. James died in 1958 aged 90 years.
My great grandfather William KNOPP [b.1859 in Pentridge (Coburg), Vic] was raised in Coburg and met and married on 26/1/1885 at Gore Street, Fitzroy, Vic a Jessie Elizabeth TAYLOR [b.5/9/1864 at 137 Johnson Street, Fitzroy]. Jessie was the daughter of Fanny and the late John Thomas TAYLOR but I will write their story in a TAYLOR journal.
William and Jessie had their eldest child Francis Lydia then moved to farmland along the King Parrot Creek at Flowerdale. They had a total of 12 children, the remaining 11 being born at Flowerdale and registered in Yea, Victoria.
There were seven girls and five boys.
1. Francis Lydia [b. 1885 in Melbourne m. Ernest Edward MILLEN at Flowerdale in 1903 d. 1962 at Mitcham, Vic] and had 3 children.
2. Jessie Florence (Florrie) [b.1887 Flowerdale m. Hugh WEIR (who worked doing autopsies at the RMH who was born in Carlton in 1886 and died 1952 at East Brunswick and is buried in the Fawkner Cemetery). Florrie died 9/5/1970 at Brunswick and she is buried also in the Fawkner Cemetery].
3. Clara Cath [b.1888 at Flowerdale m. 1/6/1910 to James Francis McDONALD at Flowerdale. James was born at Mt Egerton, Vic in 1868 and died 15/6/1958 while Clara had died on 22/4/1946, both dying in Wonthaggi, Vic and both buried at Bacchus Marsh, Vic. They had 6 children].
4. William [b. 1889 at Flowerdale, Vic m. 1915 to Estella May EVANS b. 1892 at Yea] William joined the Victorian Police Force on 17/12/1914 and joined up in 1915 to fight in WW1. He died in 1961 at Ivanhoe, Vic. William and Estella had 4 children.
5. James [b.1892 at Flowerdale m. 1915 to Julia Catherine SWINNERTON b. abt. 1895]. James and Julia both died in Bendigo, Vic, James in 1961 and Julia in 1946. They had 4 children.
First World War Embarkation Roll - James Knopp
Service number: 1515
Roll title: 8 LHR [Light Horse Regiment] - 11 to 14 Reinforcements (October 1915 - January 1916)
Conflict: First World War, 1914-1918
Date of embarkation: 21 October 1915
Place of embarkation: Melbourne
Ship embarked on: SS Hawkes Bay
6. Mary Ann came next on 6/8/1892 at Flowerdale and died of burns at Prahan, Vic in 1895.
7. Arthur Leslie [b. 1894 in Flowerdale m. 1917 Elsie May RAWILLER. Arthur died at Inglewood in 1937].
First World War Embarkation Roll - Arthur Leslie Knopp
Arthur Leslie Knopp
Service number: 1189
Roll title: 4 LHR [Light Horse Regiment] - Reinforcements [1-12] (December 1914 - November 1915)
Conflict: First World War, 1914-1918
Date of embarkation: 20 August 1915
Place of embarkation: Melbourne
Ship embarked on: HMAT Kyarra
Ship number: A55
8. Ethel May [b. 1898 at Flowerdale m. 1923 to George CHESSELL and d. 1962 at Parkville, Vic]. George and Ethel had 2 girls.
9. Albert Thomas [b. 1900 at Flowerdale d. 1/5/1976 at Bundoora, Vic]. Albert never married and had been an orchardist up around the Ouyen area in Victoria.
First World War Embarkation Roll - Albert Thomas Knopp
Albert Thomas Knopp
Service number: 68688
Roll title: 1 to 17 (VIC) Reinforcements (March-November 1918)
Conflict: First World War, 1914-1918
Date of embarkation: 22 October 1918
Place of embarkation: Adelaide
Ship embarked on: HMAT Boonah
Ship number: A36
10 & 11. Hilda and Lily were twins, born 1901 at Flowerdale. Hilda married twice, first to Richard GRUNDY in 1919 and secondly to Ben MOULSDALE.
Hilda had 3 children to GRUNDY and one son to MOULSDALE. She died at Nhill, Vic on 31/12/1969.
Lily married William Cyril SIMPSON and they had one son. She died in Kensington, Vic in 1974. Extract from WW1 Roll of Honour:
War Grave Register notes: SIMPSON, Pte. William Cyril, 5418. 24th Bn. 4th Oct., 1917. Age 25. Son of John Thomas and Margaret Simpson; husband of Lily Simpson, of Homewood, Victoria.
12. Norman Harold [b. 1903 at Flowerdale d. 1978 in Melbourne]. Norman never married and had worked as an orchardist up around the Ouyen area.
Jessie Elizabeth died in the Yea hospital in 1907 and is buried in the old Yea Cemetery. Records were burnt during a fire in the Council Chambers circa 1923 but while the Shire had a listing stating she is buried there , they had lost in the fire all locations within the cemetery and on searching, many of the headstones were smashed and wooden markers rotted.
Great grandfather William was said to have been a hard man, very distrustful and had buried his money in the orchard while he lived at Flowerdale. Clara, my grandmother raised the young ones after her mother died in 1907.
Clara and James McDONALD, being my grandparents will be my next journal entry.
It was in the year of 1857 the James and Sophia KNOPP [nee CLAY, daughter of William and Mary CLAY of Purfleet West, Eng.] arrived in Melbourne on the Ship "Grand Trianon" with their two children Emma [b.1853 Little Thurrock] and James [b.1854 Little Thurrock]. Their address in the 1851 Census had been 44 Lime Kiln, Grays Essex.
They settled in Pentridge with their address in 1902 being 3 Reynard Road, Coburg Victoria. Pentridge was the original name of Coburg, but after Pentridge Prison was built the people of the village did not wish to be associated with the prison and agreed to change the name. James and Sophia had a total of eight children with a further four girls and two boys being born between 1857 and 1872. These Australian born children were
Mary Ann[b. 1857 at Brunswick, Vic m.William Galbraith REID in 1874 in Coburg];
William [b. 1859 at Pentridge, Vic d. 1914 East Melbourne, Vic m.26/1/1885 to Jessie Elizabeth TAYLOR b. Fitzroy, Vic 5/9/1864 d. Flowerdale, Vic 1907 and buried at Yea cemetery];
Charles [b. 1861 at Brunswick d. 1959 at North Melbourne m. 25/1/1881 at Fitzroy to Mary Catherine Violet KIRWIN b. 1863 d. 1935 at Fairfield, Vic];
Sarah Jane [b. 1866 at Brunswick, Vic];
Florence [b. 1869 at Pentridge, Vic m. to Charles TONKIN in 1891 at Coburg, Vic]; and
Sophia Lydia [b.1872 at Coburg, Vic d. 1956 at Melbourne, Vic. and buried 3/3/1956 at Fawkner Cemetery m. 1898 at Moreland, Vic to Robert Andrew McINTOSH b.1862 at Northcote, Vic d. 1949 at Glen Iris, Vic]
The two born in England, they being Emma Clara [b.1853 at Grays, Essex d. 16/3/1914 in Melbourne m. 1871 in Melbourne to William HAY b. 1847 Sydney NSW (St. James Parish records) d. 1944]. Emma had a daughter Eleanor Clara KNOPP in 1870 to unknown father.
James [b. 1854 in Grays, Essex d.1927].
As William was my great grandfather I will continue with him and his life in my next journal.
Where and when did William KNOPP b. 1796 Grays, West Thurrock, Essex died. He joined the Mormons, sailed to NY in 1856, and was on the Pioneer Trail of 1860 to Utah. Utah Digitilised Newspapers, Deseret News Archives list his wife's death in 1881 at
Taylorville, SLC, Utah. her name being Jane nee VALE b. 1798 at Buttebury, Essex.
Our KNOPP family worked in the lime kilns in the mid 1800s. William, my great-great-great-grandfather b. 1796 at Grays m.5 Oct 1823 in Essex Jane VALE b. 1798 in Buttebury in Essex as stated in her death notice.
William was the son of James KNOPP b. 1754 in West Thurrock d. 1826 in West Thurrock m.abt 1790 to Sarah UNKNOWN b. abt 1755 d. 1841 West Thurrock and together they had 7 children: 3 girls, Ruth, Sarah and Charlotte and 4 boys, James, William, John and Isaac.
William and Jane had 6 children:4 boys, James, George, William and John and 2 girls, Eliza and Mary. Their address in 1851 was Little Thurrock, Essex.
So far my research has William, Eliza and their parents joining the Mormons and while William left earlier than his parents (still to research), his parents and Eliza then aged 27 sailed on the Mormon ship CARAVAN, departing Liverpool 18 Feb 1856 and arriving 27 March 1856 at New York, New York. Further details available at
(Just enter your ancestor's name in the search box and if you're lucky you'll find him/her and their fellow travellers.)
William was 60 years old and Jane 55 years according to Mormon details. They first stayed in Pennsylvania in which I think Eliza married and stayed (more research) while her parents set off for Utah on the Pioneer Trail of 1860 in a covered wagon leaving July and arriving in September. While it is noted that there was only one adult death (an elderly man in his 80s) and 2 young children and on checking the "Desert News" on the internet (thanks Utah Uni)it is know that William had ongoing mail to collect from the post office. I have found his death in the Deseret News dated 6 March 1877 where he had died in Charleston, Provo Valley on 15 Feb. 1877 having gone to live there from Taylorville in Oct. 1976. One solved and now what was he doing there when his wife was still in Taylorville? Jane died in 1881 in Taylorville now a suburb of Salt Lake City. Her death notice made no mention of William or any of their children.
Son James KNOPP b. 1826 in Little Thurrock, Essex m. 7 July 1851 at St Leonards Church Of Eng., Shoreditch, Middlesex England to Sophia Lydia CLAY b.1828, Purfleet, West Thurrock, Essex.
James and Sophia had 2 children, Emma b. 1853 and James b. 1854 before boarding the "Grand Trianon" to emigrate to Melbourne, Australia.
I will continue with Jame's story next journal.
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