I found the marriage for James and Mary in 1880, but I could not find any birth records for their children in Victoria, New South Wales, Queensland, Western Australia, South Australia or Tasmania. Came up empty handed with the New Zealand births as well.

Need a few more details here, like the ages recorded for the children on Mary's death certificate, and in what year?

Not being able to locate any births makes me think the children may have been adopted, or born in another country, but I could be wrong.

When Mary Ann died in 1881 the children were aged as follows. Rebecca 6 yrs., Arthur 4 yrs., Mary 2 yrs. Mary Ann died of Cerebritis.

I did consider that the children might not be Mary Ann's but her mother's name was Rebecca and on the marriage cert. James is stated as a bachelor and Mary Ann a spinster, her age at marriage being 32 yrs. This is a big discrepency between that which James stated on the Death Certificate which was 25 yrs. James might have said she was 25 yrs at marriage due to the ages of the children. He also states that they were married at Wangaratta. The M.C says Buninyong and they were living at Magpie. I thought that maybe he took the children back to England. He was born in Newcastle upon Tyne.

I also considered that James might not be the father of the children. Arthur is a totally alien name to the Noonans. Thanks for your interest. Ros.

Thank you for the extra information Ros. I had an idea this may have been the Mary that died in the Melbourne Hospital in 1881, but the children had me a bit confused, but not now. Looking at my research notes from yesterday things now seem to fall into place.

Having obtained a few hundred certificates over the years I can assure you the information supplied by the informants may not always be correct, more so with marriages when they have something to hide.

Now lets have a look at Mary's children.

Rebecca: born circa 1875.
Arthur: born circa 1877.
Mary: born circa 1879.

You said Mary was recorded on the marriage certificate as a spinster, but I'm starting to wonder.

There was a Mary Ann NOONAN (born Melbourne) married to Arthur HAWTHORNE (born Newcastle) in Victoria in 1873. They had two children in New South Wales and another one in Victoria. Observe the names and birth years.


Robert Arthur HAWTHORNE
Born: 1875 Sydney, New South Wales.
Died: 1875 Sydney.


Arthur HAWTHORNE.
Born: 1877 Sydney, New South Wales.


Mary HAWTHORNE.
Born: 1879 Dunolly, Victoria.

I have a feeling this will be the Arthur and Mary named on Mary's death certificate in 1881.

I have not located a possible death for Arthur HAWTHORNE between 1879 and 1880, so if this is the same Mary Ann NOONAN they may have been divorced.

I'm having trouble trying to locate a birth for Rebecca circa 1875 but will keep looking.

This first marriage does confuse things, and at the same time answers a few questions. Let me know what you think.

Well, I don't really know what to think. I do know however, you can peruse the Vict. BDM's over and over and still miss what you're looking for. It certainly looks like the same Mary Ann. As I said Arthur is totally alien. Did they have divorce in that era, Mary Ann was a Catholic. She was one of about 10 but only 4 survied to marry. (I am still looking for a John who reached adulthood).

Her parents Michael and Rebecca, arrived in Vict. with Michael, Ann and Patrick, and then proceeded to have several more children.

The question is what happened to Mary Ann's children, did they go under the Hawthorne or Henderson name. Mary Ann is buried in Boroondara Cemetery. What was Arthur's occupation that took him to Sydney?

I must say this has to be the best site ever, I have discovered so much in just over a month. Ros.

Yes, they did have divorces in that era and I did check the records but there is nothing recorded in Victoria.

I noticed Michael and Rebecca had nine children, with Rebecca being recorded as READY and REEDY. There were also two children recorded under the parents of Michael NOONAN and Rebecca REDDING. I have come across READY recorded as REDDING before so may be worth looking at.
The variations in the spelling of names in that era drives me up the wall.

After 30 odd years of searching the records I must agree with you how easy it is to miss what you are looking for, only to find it with a later search. I sometimes think someone slips the name in when I'm not looking.

What happened to Mary's children is another challenge. The marriages and deaths will have to be searched under both names, and will take time as you know. I will keep looking and will let you know if I have any luck. It all takes time.