kerbent on Family Tree Circles
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My Lovell family were from Acton, Middlesex, and not from Compton Martin, Somerset, England as I had originally thought
When I began my research I had the parents of my Francis Lovell - William Lovell and Mary.
With nothing much more to go on I did a search in the census' and found a William and Mary Lovell in Compton Martin, Somerset, England. I decided to follow through on this line and in doing so found a whole clan of Lovell's living in the area but as I was to find out soon enough they weren't mine. Francis Lovell my direct connection to the family was nowhere to be found and far more elusive. Later I discovered that this was because I had unfortunately chosen the wrong family. The William and Mary I was looking for can be found in the Middlesex area of England(See below).
So now I am posting this new journal as a response to my own previous jounral about the Lovell family in Crompton Martin as way of correction. I'm still Interested in talking to anyone who might be related or want to share information.
Sandra
William Lovell born about 1806 in Chalfont, Buckinghamshire, England and died: Jan Q 1870 - Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire, England, United Kingdom
1841 Census
East Acton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom.
( HO107; Piece 687; Book: 2; Civil Parish: Acton; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 4; Folio: 22; Page: 11)
1. William Lovell, 40, Carman
2. Mary Lovell, 40
3. Ann Lovell, 15
4. William Lovell, 15
5. Francis Lovell, 13
6. Mary Lovell, 7
7. Sarah Borall 70
1851 Census
( HO107; Piece: 1699; Folio: 637; Page: 19)
East Acton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom.
1. William Lovell, head, married, 56, A??ing Laundry
2. Mary Lovell, wife, mar, 54, Laundress
3. Frank Lovell, son U, 23, Apresting lab
4. Mary Lovell, daughter, U, 17, Laundress
3. He appeared on the census in 1871 in Kensington Workhouse, Kensington,
London, England, United Kingdom. (6) William was an inmate, his occupation
was labourer.
William Lovell married Mary Field (Abt 1797 - Jul Q 1874) in 1823 - Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London, England, United Kingdom and they had four children that I know of:-
1. Ann Lovell (Abt 1826- )
2. William Lovell (Abt 1826- )
3. Francis Lovell (Abt 1829- )
4. Mary Lovell (Abt 1834- )
Different clusters of Jacka?s in England
There are several Jacka researchers that surmise that there are different clusters of Jacka?s in England.
And that these clusters can be identified by using naming patterns and geography as defining principles to identify various Jacka family groups.
Below is an outline of naming pattern "theory"
Naming Patterns 1700-1875
The first Son was named after the father?s father
Second son named after mother?s father
Third son named after the father
Fourth son named after father?s eldest brother
First daughter named after mother?s mother
Second daughter named after father?s mother
Third daughter named after mother
Fourth daughter named after mother?s eldest sister
Exceptions to the pattern occur when the naming system produced a duplication of names.
In that case, the name was taken from the next on the list.
Another break in the pattern could be caused by a death.
If a child died in infancy, then the parents would name the subsequent new born the same name.
(Taken from: Tracing your Origins. By Angus Baxter.)
Using the International Genealogical Index (IGI) a fellow researcher has labourously extract hundreds of people with Jacka surnames (although not all) he has managed to link together various Jacka families based on the patterns occurring in their offspring?s names.
On analysis they can be divided up into different groups according to particular naming patterns and occupation types.
The five groups so far identified are:-
Lands End
Land's End (Cornish name: Pedn a Wollaz) is a headland on the Penwith peninsula, located near Penzance, Cornwall, UK.
Common thread names
Abrahams
Joseph
Hugh
Common occupation
Working the land either as labourers or farmers
Mounts Bays
Common thread names
Humphrey
Benjamin
Nicholas
And further down the descendancy the name Peter and is introduced and the name Humphrey is dropped
Common occupation
Fishermen
Redruth (group 1)
Common thread names
Richard
David
Steven
Common occupation
Miners, blacksmiths, whitesmiths, stone masons
Redruth (group 2)
Originally from Perranzubloe before moving to Redruth
Common thread names
Walter
Samuel
Common occupation - not yet identified
Scatter group
Not yet identified as a single or multiple groups with distinguishing features
Of course this is only a theory a lot more work has yet to be done such as consulitng original records etc, but perhaps eventually if we can gather enough infomration and go back far enough they will link together?
From all of this information can you identiy which group your Jacka's might belong to?
Sandra
Two John Bassetts - Almost a case of mistaken identity
On John Bassett?s death certificate (died in Eaglehawk, Victoria, Australia) in 1868 his age was 80 and his parents were William Bassett and Mary Unknown. Therefore we deducted that he must have been born in circa 1788.
Research turned up a John Bassett christened 27 March 1788, St Izzey, Cornwall his parents were William Bassett and Mary Symons. At this point we felt very excited that we had found our John. However, after further research a descendant was found in Roma, Queensland, Australia who refuted our claim of kinship ? in the nicest way possible.
The following information was forwarded for us to digest:-
John Bassett [son of William Bassett (1761-1831) & Mary Symons (1767-1832)] Christened 27 Mar 1788 in St Izzy, Cornwall who died 7th Oct 1851 in Fairwater House, Taunton Somerset.John was a lunatic confined to Fairwater House Lunatic Asylum for many years admitted July 1828 having previously been a patient at a similar establishment near Tauton, Fivehead House since 25 Oct 1822.This was a wholesale move and transfer of license from the one to the other asylum by the same surgeon/owner. Private patient. Cause of death peritonitis and effusion in the chest (Somerset RO 1/5/87).
This therefore couldn't be the John Bassett who married Martha Carbis as he died in England in 1851 whereas our John died in Eaglehawk, Victoria, Australia in 1868
So it was back to the drawing board, until a second promising John Bassett was unearthed, who was also born in Madron
John Bassett christened 5 September 1790, Madron, Cornwall Unfortunately only one parent is given, the father, in the Madron Parish records see below
"5 Sep 1790 John s/o William Bassett, pauper at Madron"
On John Bassett's death certificate1 in 1868 his father is listed as William, a farmer, and his mother is listed as Mary unknown, a farmers wife.
Another conundrum perhaps John's parents had in the past been farmer but had become paupers just before John was born?
It would seem highly likely that the descendants in Australia had no clear memory of who John's parents were, or what their occupations were. Australia is a long way away and death certificates are not the most reliable source of information.
So until someone comes along to prove something different I've decided to lay claim to this John, at least for the momment.
Looking for information for John Bassett pre his marriage to Martha Carbis in Paul, Cornwall
Not much is known about John Bassett born 1970 before his marriage to Martha Carbis in 1812, other than his occupation which was listed as sojourner in the parish register.
A sojourner ?just means someone who is a temporary resident, but in Parish Registers its meaning is a little more precise. When the Hardwicke Act was introduced in 1754, clerks were required to enter the parish for each party to a marriage. If they had been resident for more than 3 weeks then they were shown as ?o.t.p.? (of this parish). However, for someone who had only taken up residence in lodgings to avoid the necessity for banns fees, this was frowned upon and the word ?sojourner? was added to the entry to indicate that they had met the letter of the law but didn't really belong.?(Found in the Glossary of the website belonging to West Penwith Resources)
If this definition is applied to my John Bassett it implies that he had moved into the parish in order to marry Martha and that he may not have been living in Madron for much longer than 3 weeks.
The idea that he was not born in Paul is also supported by the the 1851 & 1861 census which gives John?s birthplace as Madron a neighbouring parish of Paul.
On investigation of the Madron Parish records there is a record of a John Bassett who was christened in 1790. Unfortunately only one parent, the father, was given.
"5 Sep 1790 John s/o William Bassett, pauper at Madron"
On John Bassett's death certificate (he died 1868) his father is listed as William a farmer and his mother is listed as Mary unknown a farmers wife. (the names and/or may or may not be an accurate record). If John Bassett?s parents were farmers at some stage the usage of word paupers may inidicate that they have come upon hard times.
The use of the term "farmer" seems to cover pretty much anyone who owned or rented a piece of land on which they carried out some type of farming-like activity.
John?s father, William, was listed as a pauper at his christening - perhaps he fell on hard times at one point just but before and perhaps even after that he may have had a smallholding. Maybe at Johns birth his father was struggling, but later he managed to rise above the pauper status just before the birth of his last daughter Jane.
After perusing the parish records I have identified John?s the possible siblings, below are the transcribed entries
1. ?4 Jan 1784 Anne d/o William Basset at Madron?
2. ?11 Sep 1785 Francis s/o William Bassett, pauper at Madron?
3. ?20 Jan 1788 William s/o William Bassett, pauper at Madron?
4. ?5 Sep 1790 John s/o William Bassett, pauper at Madron?
5. ?8 Mar 1792 Mary d/o William Basset, pauper at Madron private baptism"
6. ?9 Mar 1794 Mary d/o William Basset, pauper at Madron?
7. ?13 Mar 1796 James s/o William Bassett, pauper at Madron?
8. ?17 Feb 1798 Hanna d/o William Basset, pauper at Madron private ?baptism
9. ?23 Mar 1800 Jane d/o William Basset at Madron private baptism?
The most likely marriage for William is to a Jane Mathews Banns Pub July 27, Aug 3 & 10 1783 the actual marriage took place on March 13 Sep 1783.
In all there appear to be 3 marriages for persons named William Bassett in Madron.
? William Bassett (signed with child like writing) Jane Mathews (signed with a mark) Banns Pub July 27,Aug 3 & 10 1783 Marr 13 sep 1783 Witness Sibion Thoastes? who signed his name Witness Mathew Hoken who signed his name Page 212 Reg#844
? William Bassett (signed with a mark) to Eleanor Sampson (signed with a mark) 1761 23 June Witness James Bassett who signed his name Witness Margery Grenfell made a mark Page 45 Reg#178
? William Bassett to Magery Grenfield 1735 Aug 23
However the William who married Jane seems the most likely one based on a bit of investigation. The other William?s marrying in Madron are too early:
This William was able to sign his name however the signature was in very childlike writing. This may have been an indication that there was some source of income in his background ? enough to at least for him to learn how to write his name. Or he may have learnt to write his name for a single purpose such as to sign apprenticeship papers.
When he became a pauper he may not have had enough money to pay for his own children to learn to write which would explain why when his son John comes to get married he is unable to sign his own name in the parish register.
On William?s marriage certificate it stated that both William and his bride were both of the parish of Madron.
The idea that John?s mother is Jane Mathews is John?s father is contradicted by John?s own death certificate which says it was Mary. (Death certificates however are notoriously unreliable)
Looking at the list of John?s possible siblings it would appear that something must have happened between 1784 and 1785 as his father was not listed as Pauper on his sister Anne?s christening record but by 1785 he was listed as a pauper, on his son Francis?s christening record.
Who are the parents of John BASSETT born Madron, Cornwall circia 1788 - 1790?
Hi,
Hopefully somebody can help - There has been a fair amount of confusion around who the parents of my John Bassett who was born in England and died in Victoria, Australia. I would value any help that could help me (and other descendants) get over this brick wall. I've tried to lay out the logic of my conclusion so that others might be able to show me where I'm wrong or perhpas an altervative way of approaching the same problem
Cheers,
Sandra from down under in Australia
When was John Bassett Snr Born?
On John Bassett's death certificate (died in Eaglehawk) in 1868 his age was 80 (birthdate would then be 1788)
In the 1841 census he was listed as being aged 50 born possibly in 1787-91
In the 1851 census he was listed as being aged 60 born possibly born in 1791
In the 1861 census he was listed as being aged 70 born possibly born in 1791
On his death certificate is states that was 80 years old when he died in 1868 which would have made his birth date 1788
From the above evidence it would seem that John Basset was probably born between 1788 and 1790.
Possible Candidates for the position of our John Bassett
John Bassett christened 27 March 1788, St Izzey, Cornwall his parents were William Bassett and Mary Symons. This John Bassett however died 7th Oct 1851 in Fairwater House, Taunton Somerset. John was a lunatic confined to Fairwater House Lunaic Asylum for many years admitted July 1828 having previously been a patient at a similar establishment near Tauton, Fivehead House since 25 Oct 1822. This was a wholesale move and transfer of licence from the one to the other asylum by the same surgeon/owner. Private patient. Cause of death peritonitis and effusion in the chest (Somerset RO 1/5/87)
John Bassett christened 5 September 1790, Madron, Cornwall Unfortunately only one parent is given, the father, to a William Bassett according to the Madron Parish records see below http://madronparishrecords.tripod.com/id24.html
"5 Sep 1790 John s/o William Bassett, pauper at Madron"
This could be MY John Bassett however on his death certificate it stated that John Bassett's parents were farmers (which may or may not be accurate), if his parents were farmers it is unlikely they would have been listed as paupers on his christening record.
Any one got any ideas?
Sandra
Looking for the parents of William LOVELL, Compton Martin, Somerset, England
William LOVELL, born possbily between 1806 and 1807 in Compton Martin, Somerset, England
William married Mary.
Mary was born about 1801 in Chillcott,Somerset, England
They had seven children:
1. Ann, born about 1826 in Compton Martin, Somerset,England
2. William, born about 1826 in Middlesex, England, United Kingdom
3. Francis, born about 1829 in East Acton, Middlesex, England(Francis married Hannah. Hannah was born about 1836 in East Acton, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom. They had five children: Edward Francis, Emily, Albert, Walter and Louisa.)
4. Mary, , born about 1834 in Middlesex, England, United Kingdom
5. Elizabeth, , born about 1838 in Compton Martin,Somerset, England
6. James, , born about 1840 in Compton Martin, Somerset,England, UK
7. William, .born about 1844 in Compton Martin, Somerset, England, UK
Hannah BOGIE born circia 1827 in Scotland who married John MILLIGAN in KIRKCALDY, FIFESHIRE, SCOTLAND
I am looking for information on a Hannah Bogie born cirica 1828 possibly in Kirkcaldy, Fifeshire, Scotland who married a John Milligan according to the IGI on 30 Oct 1846 in Dysart, Fife, Scotland.
I have found a Hannah Ropper Boggie who was born 05 AUG 1828 and christened on the 24 AUG 1828 in Dysart, Fife, Scotland and child of DAVID BOGGIE & ISABEL FYFE but I 'm not sure if she is the same person. I think I have found the family in West Gallatown North Side, Dysart in the 1841 Scottish Census; which would have been close to where my Hannah would have been born and got married.
Any information would be most helpful.
Sandra
Looking for John MILLIGAN in Scotland
John Milligan born in Dalkeith, Midlothian, Scotland in 1827
In 1861 he lived in Dawell Brae, Dunbar, East Lothian, Scotland his wife and children and was running a grocer shop.
By 1871 and till after 1881 he was living in Duddingston Midlothian Scotland and was a spitit merchant.
He married Hannah but may have another wife before Hannah called Margaret but I am not sure
Hannah maiden name unknown was born about 1828 in Kirkcaldy, Fifeshire, Scotland
John appears to have died between 1881 and 1891, although this has not been confirmed as the Scotish census does not give the maritial status of the people listed in the house hold, however John was not present and his wife was living with her daughter Margaret's family.
Children of John are:-
1. Alex Milligan born about 1849 in Haddington, Haddingtonshire possibly the son of the first wife Margaret
Children of John & Hannah appear to be:-
2. Isabella Milligan born about 1854 in Haddington, East Lothian, Scotland
3. Margaret Milligan born about 1857 in Dunbar, Haddingtonshire, Scotland
4. Robert J C Milligan born about 1860 in Dumbar, East Lothian, Scotland
5. Hannah Milligan born about 1862 in Dunbar, East Lothian, Scotland
6. Elizabeth Milligan born about 1865 in Drummore, Midlothian, Scotland
Two Thomas CRUMPs came from England to Australia - almost a case of mistaken identity
When doing research for my illusive Crump Ancestors, I thought I had finally located my mysterious x3gr Grandfather alas after considerable delving I discovered that he couldn't have be mine. Close but not close enough.
Both Thomas Crumps came to Australia around the early 1840s,
Thomas Crump(1) my ancestor
Thomas Crump(2) the guy who I originally thought might have been my ancestor -Thomas Crump(1)
Both Thomas' were born in in the early between 1800s, within 3 years of each other.
Thomas Crump(1) c1815
Thomas Crump(2) 1818
Both Thomas' were out of general English population by early 1840s:-
Thomas Crump(1) according to his death certificate he had been in Victoria Australia for 32 years before he died, making his arrival date to Victoria in 1842
*the first positive record of Thomas in the Port Phillip District and was found in the 1845/46, in the LaTrobe Ward of the Melbourne Rate Books. He was the owner of a 4 roomed house with a Kitchen, Stable and Yard.
*There has been some speculation that may have immigrated on the Marquis of Hasting on 11 Oct 1840. arrived Sydney 4 February 1841 under Captain T.A Carr left Plymouth 11/10/1840, however nothing has been confirmed yet)
Thomas Crump(2) was convicted at the Central Criminal Court on 19/10/1840 of Larceny: Stealing a roll of flannel at the age of 22 and was sentenced to 7 years. He spent 1 year, 5 months on a Hulk. Before he was transported to Tasmania in Australia on the ?Candahar? left Portsmouth on the on the 17/3/1842 and arrived in Van Demons Land on 21 July 1842
My original thought was that it could be possible that possible that Thomas Crump(1) & (2) were the same person and that Thomas had been convicted in England and transported to Van Demon's Land and then somehow traveled to Victoria were he married my 3x great grandmother Selina Wheeler.
Thomas Crump(2) married Lydia Johnson and they were married on the 6 April 1846 (Yr 1846, Reg#2321) in Hobart. This is still consistent with the possibility that Thomas (1) & (2) were the same person as on Thomas Crump(1)'s death certificate it stated that details of his first wife were unknown, therefore when Thomas (1) remarried in 30 Dec 1850 in Melbourne, I initially thought that Lydia Johnson may have died between 1847 and 1850, making Selina Wheeler his second wife.
It wasn't until I found that Thomas Crump(2) died in 1866 according to an inquest held in Hobart on 7 Nov 1866, was accidentally killed, that I knew he could not be my Thomas(1) who did died until 1874 in Victoria, Australia.
In Summary
Thomas Crump(2)
Birth c 1818, his native place of origin was listed as Bethnal Green, London
Thomas was convicted at the Central Criminal Court on 19/10/1840 of Larceny: Stealing a roll of flannel at the age of 22 and was sentenced to 7 years.
He spent 1 year, 5 months on a Hulk. In the records only one family was mentioned an uncle whose name was John.
He was transport to Tasmania on the ?Candahar? left Portsmouth on the on the 17/3/1842 and arrived in Van Demons Land on 21 July 1842
August 1842 he spent his probation in a Station gang for seven months at Lovely Banks, which is north of Hobart on what is now known as the Midlands Highway.
He then moved to the Prisoner's Barracks where on the 19/5/1843 he was found to be neglecting his work and as punishment he was given 6 days solitary & then on the 17/6/1843 in the Probation Prisoners' Barracks where once again he neglected his work as punishment he was given two months hard labor on the roads presumably near Browns River.
He returned to the Prisoner's Barracks on and onto various work assignments in Sandy Bay, Hobart, & Bridgewater and then back to Hobart where on 4/11/1844 in Abbott, Hobart he was charged with misconduct in resisting a constable in the execution of his duty he was put in solitary for 14 days.
He was granted permission to marry Lydia Johnson and they were married on the 6 April 1846 (Yr 1846, Reg#2321) in Hobart.
Together they had 6 children
Thomas Henry Crump born 12 Dec 1846 (Yr1846, reg#2857)
John Walter Crump Born9 Oct 1848 (Yr1848, reg#3285) (died 22/11/1897)
1. Lucy Lydia Crump born 14 Apr 1851 (Yr1851, reg#3842)
2. Eliza Crump born 4 May 1853 (Yr 1853, reg#1853) (died 4/5/1853)
3. Eliza Crump born 3 May 1853 (Yr 1853, Reg#2249)
4. William Crump born 6 Apr 1854 (Yr1854, reg#4340)
He received his first ticket of freedom on the 7/7/1846 and his Free Certificate on the 19/10/1847
Inquest held on body in Hobart on 7 Nov 1866, verdict accidentally killed. Crime report 11 January 1867
Thomas Crump(1)
In contrast my ancestor Thomas Crump was born in 1815 - , Kent, England and died in 13 Apr 1874 Hawthorn, Victoria, Australia. Immigrated: arriving in Victoria in, 1842. according to his death certificate. He married twice, details of his first wife are unknown.
His second wife however was Selina Wheeler (Abt 1834 - 24 Jul 1899) married on 30 Dec 1850 in Melbourne, , Victoria, Australia
their children were:
1. William Crump (1851-1866)
2. Theophilus Crump (1853-1930)
3. Albert Crump (Abt 1855- )
4. Walter Crump (Abt 1862-1923)
5. Christina Crump (Abt 1864-1882)
6. Thomas Crump (1866-1948)
I have not yet been able to find any reference to any of Thomas' family of origin making it very hard to go back any further.
Still looking for the puzzle pieces
Sandra
Isabella Munro nee Jennings born in India died in Australia
Isabella Munro nee Jennings born in India died in Australia
Isabella was born 26 Dec 1837 in Maharashta, Bombay, India and christened on 14 Jan 1838 according to her birth certificate. Her father George Jennings was a Gunner Artillery (presumably in the India or British armies, I am not sure which) and her mother was Catherine. We think Catherine's surname may have been Jacob this has yet to be confirmed. married Alexander Andrew Munro aka Palmer(29 Sep 1826 - 13 Nov 1901) on: 28 Apr 1853 - St. Andrew Church, Bombay, India. Alexander was born in Falkirk, Stirlingshire, Scotland and Alexander had 12 Children:
1. Blanche Angelina Louisa Munro (1857-1920)
2. James Palmer Munro (1858-1920)
3. Ruth Isabelle Munro (1860- )
4. Andrew George Munro (1861-1958)
5. Mary Ann (Minnie?) Munro (1863-1945)
6. Caroline Munro (1864-1968)
7. Margaret Jane (Maggie) Munro (1866-1895)
8. Catherine Eva Munro (1869-1950)
9. Francis William (Frank) Munro (1871-1960)
10. Sammuel Jennings Munro (1873-1945)
11. Isabel Mary "May" Munro (1876-1943)
12. Phoebe Munro (1878-Bef 1938)
The first 8 of the children were born in India, the last four were born in Australia.
Isabella died Nov 1938 - 8 Greeves Street, Fitzroy, , Victoria, Australia and was burred on the 14 Nov 1938 - Melbourne General Cemetery, College Crescent, Parkville, Victoria, Australia at the age of 104.
Interested in making contact with fellow researchers and family.
Sandra
