Name: Ellen HARRIS. Died: 1914 Ballarat, Victoria, Australia. Age: 83 years. Father: Named as John LOTT. Mother: Named as Mary Ann unknown. Ref: Registry of Deaths, Victoria. Reg #209.
Hi Yes, this is the Alfred Abraham Harris I am looking for.
His daughter Mary Ann(e) was born (I think) on 2 February 1858 and on 22 April 1878 married Edwin Northeast in Clunes (confirmed). The died in Scottsdale, Tasmania, on 9 April 1942 (confirmed). She was my great grandmother. I would like to get some confirmed dates about her parents - I suspect they were married in England in 1849 and then came to Australia by 1856 (I have found an Alfred Abraham Harris on the electoral role as a freeholder in 1856). I haven't been able to find Alfred and Ellen in any of the immigration indexes I have looked at. I can find Alfred Harris, and an Ellen Harris, but never on the same vessel. Nor can I find a death notice for Alfred. I will keep looking....
This is interesting, possible transcript error or recording error on mothers name
Australian Birth Index Name: William Harris Father's name: Alfred Harris Mother's name: Abraham Birth Place: Port Melbourne, Victoria Registration Year: 1850 Registration Place: Victoria Registration Number: 22520
Australian Death Index Name: Wm Harris Death Place: Clunes, Victoria Age: 91 Father's name: Alfred Abraham Harris Mother's name: Ellen Lott Registration Year: 1941 Registration Place: Victoria Registration Number: 21130 Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Name: William HARRIS. Born: Point Henry, Victoria. Baptised: 1850, Church of England, Geelong. Father: Named as Alfred HARRIS. Mother: Named as Abraham. Ref: Registry of Births, Victoria. Reg #22520.
Alfred and Ellen had a few more children in Point Henry. The mother named as Abraham will certainly be a transcript error as pointed out by asheppard.
William's birth does appear in the Registry of Births, but it is actually the 'baptism' record for William.
It now looks like Alfred and Ellen had eleven children in Victoria between 1850 and 1873. Further searches may find Alfred's death.
Do you have a record to confirm Alfred was born circa 1826? His year of birth will come in handy when searching the death records.
No real confirmation of 1826 - and it is possibly 1824 instead - I have found the following in indexes but haven't followed up any further
Name: Alfred Abraham Harris Gender: Male Baptism Date: 13 Aug 1824 Baptism Place: Stratford St Mary,Suffolk,England Father: William Harris Mother: Jesse Elizabeth FHL Film Number: 952982
Name: Alfred Harris Age: 17 Estimated birth year: abt 1824 Gender: Male Where born: Suffolk, England Civil Parish: St Mary Stratford Hundred: Samford County/Island: Suffolk Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
View image Registration district: Samford Sub-registration district: St Mary Capel Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 1034 Book: 21 Folio: 14 Page Number: 22 Household Members: Name Age Wm Harris 45 Jesse Harris 39 William Harris 15 Alfred Harris 17 Fredrick Harris 14
No indication of his status in Ellen Harris's death details (sometimes they give status as widow, which would have been a clue). All 11 children listed- I might have a trawl through Trove to see if I can get anything else.
It does seem strange Ellen's 'eleven children' were named on her death certificate and her status was not recorded. I expect her husband was named as Alfred HARRIS.
Who was the informant named on Ellen's death certificate?
If the informant named Ellen's eleven children they certainly had a good knowledge of her past. From memory death certificates for 1914 named the status of the deceased.
Unable to locate a likely death for Alfred Abraham HARRIS in my searches of the Victorian death records today, but will keep looking.
Ellen was a widow when she died. Clunes Guardian and Gazette , Tuesday 3 March 1914 DEATH. HARRIS. -On the 23rd February, at her daughter's residence, Kenmore, 606 Dana street, Ballarat, Ellen, widow of the late A. A Harris, late of Clunes. Funeral private;
RootsWeb This person has the immigration as arrival on the Travencore on 1 November 1849. There is an email address if you wish to contact her. The 'Cr. Long Project' which the writer mentions should actually read 'Dr. Lang' project where a Minister by the name of Rev. Dr. J. D. Lang was bringing out Protestants on three ships the Travencore and the Larpent into Geelong. Then three ships The Fortitude the Lima and the Chaseling into Morton Bay all in 1849 then in 1850 the Clifton into Melbourne and Sydney. The Geelong Historical Society could help you with further details or correct me if I'm not exactly correct. I believe there is a book by Ian Wynd which has passenger lists for these Protestant emigrants but the name of it escapes me.
Hi janilye - I also found the Rootsweb link about the Travencore. The email address is no longer valid - a bit of a problem especially, as in this case, where the person used a work email address. I will chase up with the Geelong Historical Society.
Thanks for the link to the Clunes Guardian and Gazette; it is a help.
Have you got any references for the Calcutta Exhibition?
And I am a bit curious about the "Cornishmen of Clunes" site. Alfred and Ellen were both from Suffolk, which is a bit of a distance from Cornwall!
Alfred Abraham Harris died in Newcastle, New South Wales on the 18 November 1890. Whilst on a visit to see his daughter, Mrs. Chinchen at Mona, North Waratah, Newcastle NSW.BDM. DEATHS 13106/1890 HARRIS ALFRED A FATHER WILLIAM MOTHER. UNKNOWN DISTRICT. WARATAH He's buried at Sandgate Cemetery, Newcastle
Sorry I 'spose I had better give you the proof. Family Notices Also I found a photograph supposedly of him. It's only a small one I wasn't able to get all the way into the tree to get an original. If you message me I'll tell you where it is and maybe the owner will share with you.
I tagged a few things in Trove with "Alfred Abraham Harris" just to keep track. You will also notice Alfred often entered the Clunes Horticultural Show and was one of the most prolific prize takers. I would think the Clunes Museum would have photographs and stories in their library. Here is their phone number and email address. PHONE 03 53453592 EMAIL: info@clunesmuseum.org or if it's possible, a visit to Clunes is always a wonderful adventure. You might like to take with you a bottle of Harris's Chutney Famous for nearly 150 Years
Thanks so much! I had seen the photo before - somewhere on Ancestry. I have previously sent messages to the person whose tree the photo is on, but she hasn't yet replied.
Alfred's grandson, my grandfather, was a draper, but a keen gardener and poultry fancier. He (Charles Northeast) was very active in the Scottsdale Agricultural Show Society, and encouraged school children to raise poultry through the school farm, during the 1920s and 30s. Must be in the blood!
I might try to get to Clunes next time I am travelling to Victoria. Alfred's daughter, Mary Ann, was married in Clunes. She and her husband then moved to Beechworth (sometime in the 1880s I think) and subsequently (by around 1897) to Tasmania - first to Launceston and then to Scottsdale.
Hi susannah.
Alfred Abraham HARRIS and Ellen LOTT had ten children in Victoria, Australia, between the years 1852 and 1873.
Would this be the Alfred Abraham HARRIS you seek?
DEATH.
Name: Ellen HARRIS.
Died: 1914 Ballarat, Victoria, Australia.
Age: 83 years.
Father: Named as John LOTT.
Mother: Named as Mary Ann unknown.
Ref: Registry of Deaths, Victoria. Reg #209.
Hi
Yes, this is the Alfred Abraham Harris I am looking for.
His daughter Mary Ann(e) was born (I think) on 2 February 1858 and on 22 April 1878 married Edwin Northeast in Clunes (confirmed). The died in Scottsdale, Tasmania, on 9 April 1942 (confirmed). She was my great grandmother. I would like to get some confirmed dates about her parents - I suspect they were married in England in 1849 and then came to Australia by 1856 (I have found an Alfred Abraham Harris on the electoral role as a freeholder in 1856). I haven't been able to find Alfred and Ellen in any of the immigration indexes I have looked at. I can find Alfred Harris, and an Ellen Harris, but never on the same vessel. Nor can I find a death notice for Alfred. I will keep looking....
There marriage in Samford Suffolk
Marriages Jun 1849
Harris Alfred Abraham Samford 12 583
Lott Ellen Samford 12 583
This is interesting, possible transcript error or recording error on mothers name
Australian Birth Index
Name: William Harris
Father's name: Alfred Harris
Mother's name: Abraham
Birth Place: Port Melbourne, Victoria
Registration Year: 1850
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Number: 22520
Australian Death Index
Name: Wm Harris
Death Place: Clunes, Victoria
Age: 91
Father's name: Alfred Abraham Harris
Mother's name: Ellen Lott
Registration Year: 1941
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Number: 21130
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
BIRTH.
Name: William HARRIS.
Born: Point Henry, Victoria.
Baptised: 1850, Church of England, Geelong.
Father: Named as Alfred HARRIS.
Mother: Named as Abraham.
Ref: Registry of Births, Victoria. Reg #22520.
Alfred and Ellen had a few more children in Point Henry.
The mother named as Abraham will certainly be a transcript error as pointed out by asheppard.
William's birth does appear in the Registry of Births, but it is actually the 'baptism' record for William.
It now looks like Alfred and Ellen had eleven children in Victoria between 1850 and 1873. Further searches may find Alfred's death.
Do you have a record to confirm Alfred was born circa 1826?
His year of birth will come in handy when searching the death records.
Hi
No real confirmation of 1826 - and it is possibly 1824 instead - I have found the following in indexes but haven't followed up any further
Name: Alfred Abraham Harris
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 13 Aug 1824
Baptism Place: Stratford St Mary,Suffolk,England
Father: William Harris
Mother: Jesse Elizabeth
FHL Film Number: 952982
Name: Alfred Harris
Age: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1824
Gender: Male
Where born: Suffolk, England
Civil Parish: St Mary Stratford
Hundred: Samford
County/Island: Suffolk
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
View image
Registration district: Samford
Sub-registration district: St Mary Capel
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1034
Book: 21
Folio: 14
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
Wm Harris 45
Jesse Harris 39
William Harris 15
Alfred Harris 17
Fredrick Harris 14
No indication of his status in Ellen Harris's death details (sometimes they give status as widow, which would have been a clue). All 11 children listed- I might have a trawl through Trove to see if I can get anything else.
regards
Sue
It does seem strange Ellen's 'eleven children' were named on her death certificate and her status was not recorded. I expect her husband was named as Alfred HARRIS.
Who was the informant named on Ellen's death certificate?
If the informant named Ellen's eleven children they certainly had a good knowledge of her past. From memory death certificates for 1914 named the status of the deceased.
Unable to locate a likely death for Alfred Abraham HARRIS in my searches of the Victorian death records today, but will keep looking.
Ellen was a widow when she died.
Clunes Guardian and Gazette , Tuesday 3 March 1914
DEATH.
HARRIS. -On the 23rd February, at her daughter's residence, Kenmore, 606 Dana street, Ballarat, Ellen, widow of the late A. A Harris, late of Clunes.
Funeral private;
Read the story here in the Clunes Community News about the Harris Family on page 8.
I suggest you contact them for more information.
He died after February 1884; because on the 26 February 1884 he won 2 medals at the Calcutta Exhibition for his tomato sauce and chutney.
I found this The Cornishmen of Clunes an interesting site
RootsWeb This person has the immigration as arrival on the Travencore on 1 November 1849. There is an email address if you wish to contact her.
The 'Cr. Long Project' which the writer mentions should actually read 'Dr. Lang' project where a Minister by the name of Rev. Dr. J. D. Lang was bringing out Protestants on three ships the Travencore and the Larpent into Geelong. Then three ships The Fortitude the Lima and the Chaseling into Morton Bay all in 1849 then in 1850 the Clifton into Melbourne and Sydney.
The Geelong Historical Society could help you with further details or correct me if I'm not exactly correct. I believe there is a book by Ian Wynd which has passenger lists for these Protestant emigrants but the name of it escapes me.
Sorry two ships into Geelong not three;
Hi janilye - I also found the Rootsweb link about the Travencore. The email address is no longer valid - a bit of a problem especially, as in this case, where the person used a work email address. I will chase up with the Geelong Historical Society.
Thanks for the link to the Clunes Guardian and Gazette; it is a help.
Have you got any references for the Calcutta Exhibition?
And I am a bit curious about the "Cornishmen of Clunes" site. Alfred and Ellen were both from Suffolk, which is a bit of a distance from Cornwall!
Thanks for the links, much appreciated!
Calcutta Exhibition
Thanks! Both my sister and I are keen sauce and chutney makers. I didn't realise that we were following a family tradition!
regards
Sue
Alfred Abraham Harris died in Newcastle, New South Wales on the 18 November 1890. Whilst on a visit to see his daughter, Mrs. Chinchen at Mona, North Waratah, Newcastle
NSW.BDM. DEATHS
13106/1890
HARRIS
ALFRED A
FATHER WILLIAM
MOTHER. UNKNOWN
DISTRICT. WARATAH
He's buried at Sandgate Cemetery, Newcastle
Thanks Janilye
I widened my search yesterday (including into NSW) and came across this one too - I have ordered the certificate to confirm the details.
Nice to be able to find the sauce maker!
Sue
Sorry I 'spose I had better give you the proof.
Family Notices
Also I found a photograph supposedly of him. It's only a small one I wasn't able to get all the way into the tree to get an original.
If you message me I'll tell you where it is and maybe the owner will share with you.
I tagged a few things in Trove with "Alfred Abraham Harris" just to keep track. You will also notice Alfred often entered the Clunes Horticultural Show and was one of the most prolific prize takers.
I would think the Clunes Museum would have photographs and stories in their library.
Here is their phone number and email address.
PHONE 03 53453592
EMAIL: info@clunesmuseum.org
or if it's possible, a visit to Clunes is always a wonderful adventure. You might like to take with you a bottle of
Harris's Chutney
Famous for nearly 150 Years
Thanks so much! I had seen the photo before - somewhere on Ancestry. I have previously sent messages to the person whose tree the photo is on, but she hasn't yet replied.
Alfred's grandson, my grandfather, was a draper, but a keen gardener and poultry fancier. He (Charles Northeast) was very active in the Scottsdale Agricultural Show Society, and encouraged school children to raise poultry through the school farm, during the 1920s and 30s. Must be in the blood!
I might try to get to Clunes next time I am travelling to Victoria. Alfred's daughter, Mary Ann, was married in Clunes. She and her husband then moved to Beechworth (sometime in the 1880s I think) and subsequently (by around 1897) to Tasmania - first to Launceston and then to Scottsdale.