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Journal by itellya

The Wells family is thought of in association with Frankston but many people would be unaware that Henry Cadby Wells was a much earlier pioneer near the Heads. All the details are on the web in THE WELLS STORY. His daughter, later Mrs Kelly, probably pipped the Skelton child for the honour of being the first white child born near the Heads.
I had seen references to Frank Stone before I came across this website in which Frank Stone's hotel is mentioned. The Frankston wikipedia states that Frank Stone may not have even existed. Perhaps the first fishermen to make their base at the south end of Long Island did not exist either because their names also did not appear in documents or newspapers!
Wells and his young, pregnant wife walked all the way from Melbourne to join Robert Rowley in a limeburning venture near the Heads two or three years before Dennis and Honora Sullivan arrived in 1843. Robert Rowley married Christina Edwards in 1859 but there was no mention of this in Victoria; she was from Longford in Tasmania! The lime burning did not last long because the depression, reaching crisis point in 1843, reduced demand for mortar in Melbourne. However, Henry teamed up with Robert again in 1849 to crayfish in Westernport and built Clark's Cottage two decades before Sorrento Village was declared at the suggestion of Sidney Smith Crispo of the Coastal Survey.
Frank Stone was obviously part of the Wells family legend. With such a proud pioneering history, why would the family feel the need to invent a pioneer: Frank Stone? Family legends do contain errors, such as the belief that Captain Henry Everest Adams of Rosebud was the legitimate son of Lord Vivian.However there would be no reason to invent Frank Stone.
Frank Liardet, Charles Franks,( murdered in 1836, not 1856 as in one website), and General Franks have been advanced as possible origins of Frankston's name. And I believe that one of these three was honoured in the official naming of the settlement circa 1853! Why am I discussing Frank Stone then?
Bendigo was officially named Sandhurst but the diggers insisted on the name that they used, and Bendigo it became. Frankston means Franks' Town and with a slight change to the pronunciation at the end could be said as Frankstone. Perhaps the pioneers such as the McCombs, who may not have known Stone, but would have been given the goss. about the area's pioneer from the Wells family, decided that it wasn't worth kicking up a fuss because they could just pronounce it their way.
While researching "The Mysterious Henry Gomm", I found a notice that a Henry Gomm had placed about finding a boat that had been washed ashore at Red Bluff (Argus 29-9-1864 page 1 column 5.) I thought this was Convict Henry or his son but I now suspect that it was Somerville Henry. In the same column was a notice about a purse that had been lost between Brighton and Tyabb, and I believe that it was also placed by Henry Gomm, who first lived (temporarily) near Somerville in 1861 and moved Margaret and family there in 1867. The un-named owner of the purse said that a reward could be claimed at Frankstone Hotel. Passing through, he must have heard stories about the early publican or heard the pronunciation of the hotel's name.
Why was it that so many editors or typesetters used Frankstone instead of Frankston for the village and parish, even in announcements of Crown land sales? One would have thought they would have been working from written information provided by Government departments and surely the clerk who prepared such would have had the official spelling of names to refer to. The newspapers are littered with references to Frankstone during its first "official" decade, in the report of the Moorabbin market gardeners' picnic in 1882 (perhaps Somerville Henry taught them the historic pronunciation), and even as late as the 1930's.In the case of Queensland papers, the spelling could have been caused by confusion with their own Frankstone, but why would the name be written so often with an e by Victorian newspapers?
Why is there so little mention of Frank Stone? There is a possibility that Thomas Stone and his brother (Frank?) went to the diggings (before 1853)and that descendants finished up as pioneers of the mountainous area near Sylvan.
Strangely, there was a FRANKSTON HOTEL at Snapper (sic) Point in 1856. Samuel Packham was granted a licence for the Frankston hotel at Frankston and Thomas P.Stone for the Bush Inn at Prahran.(Argus 16-4-1856, page 6.) Stone was the chap, at the diggings with his brother, who wrote from Geelong complaining about the gold escort. There are two possible reasons for William Edwards' hotel at Mornington being called the Frankston. Firstly, Frank Stone might have opened the hotel that probably later became the Schnapper Point and the Royal (Rennison, William Edwards, Lawrence Murphy etc). Did Frank Stone start this hotel after a successful stint at the diggings and then take on the Bush Inn with Thomas Stone? The second possibility is that another licence had been transported to a new location.
It is unlikely that this was the case with John Boswell Clark's Mornington Hotel at Sorrento; "Lugger" Clark had skippered limecraft and probably just liked the name.If I remember correctly, there had been a Mornington Hotel near Wolfdene but it became a private school. It is certain in the case of Collier and John Campbell's Rye Hotel at Tootgarook/White Cliff; this had been opened in Dromana in 1859 and the licence was continued in the latter area, thus giving it the present name. William Edward's biography in Victoria and Its Metropolis is as baffling as that of Somerville's Henry Gomm. It stated that he was, in 1888, running the Schnapper Point Hotel in Dromana. This shows that he had probably transported a licence from Mornington. (The hotel was probably on the FJ's site at the corner of Jetty Rd, Rosebud; that being the only reason that a 2 acre block, lot 86 of crown allotment 18,Wannaeue, would be regarded as sufficient security for a loan from Captain Adams of about 200 pounds. It was definitely not in Dromana, where the Dromana and Arthurs Seat were the only hotels.)William Edwards had run other Hotels before 1888 and he-or more likely his father- may have had the Frankston and transported the licence. But if this was the case, how come the Frankston Hotel was still operating under that name in Frankston?
I present a new theory, that the suburb's name is a merger of the original Frank Stone and the official Frankston. It would be really ironic if the government had decided to name the town Frankstone and a clerk had thought the e was a mistake and dropped it. To restore historic integrity, if that actually happened, the e could be taken from McCombe St in Rosebud and placed on the end of Frankston, thus honouring John McComb of Seaford, who bought "Hindhope" from the Riggs,and Frank Stone, the pioneer of Frankston!

POSTSCRIPT. steve74, a descendant of Henry Cadby Wells has sent me some great material about the naming of Frankston and the Wells family. As I do not write history if it already exists (and is accessible), I will not repeat all of Steve's information; I await a journal from Steve about the extended Wells family.
C.Evelyn Liardet wrote a letter to the editor of The Argus refuting a claim in the Victorian Historical Magazine (March 1916, vol.5, No.1) by A.W.Greig that Frankston was named after Frank Liardet, and stating that his grandfather and uncle had told him that the town was named after Charles Franks. He enclosed a reply from the Lands and Survey Department regarding Frankston's name. Frankston was so-named almost a year before a Liardet application for land was made on 20-1-1855.Charles Wedge had a run adjoining Franks' near "Mt Cotteril"
but later had a run which included the site of Frankston and may have suggested that the village be named after his unfortunate neighbour of circa 1836.
A source I discovered while searching for other information stated that Frank Stone was the young son of the early publican so the aforementioned Thomas Stone (publican at Prahran in 1856) may have been the publican at Frankston and father of young Frank. Frank Liardet squatted near Frankston in 1843 without a licence and publican Stone may have also been operating without a licence, which would explain the lack of records. Knowing Steve 74's determination, I am hoping that he will soon come across documentary proof of Stone in Frankston.

The attached image, supplied by Steven Johnson, is of a Frankston football team, probably taken before W.W.2. Was this the original uniform of the Frankston club? It is not in colour but could explain the name of the Frankston Bombers F.C. I could not introduce a footy photo into this Frankston journal without trying to trace the origin of organised footy in Frankston.
The Frankston juveniles (State School?) had issued a challenge to the juveniles at the Point (Mornington) in 1880 but no reply had been received. (South Bourke and Mornington Journal 1-9-1880, page 2.)
The earliest report of organised matches found so far was in 1887. Frankston beat Mornington 4 goals to nil. Frankston's best players were Sadler, Kelso , O'Grady, Bentick, Westaway and Clark. (SB&MS, 22-6-1887, P.2.)
As mentioned in the FOOTY ON THE MORNINGTON PENINSULA journal, complaints about opponents importing players were frequent. Frankston F.C. secretary, J.C.Sadleir accused Mornington of having no less than seven Melburnians in his letter which appeared on page 3 of the Mornington Standard of 5-10-1889. This date had obviously been some time after the game had been played. A team representing the Essendon District was named to play Frankston at Frankston. It is of interest that a member of the Essendon team was names Saddlier and was probably related to the Frankston secretary.(North Melbourne Advertiser, 2-6-1888 page 3.) In view of Janilye's comment of 13-3-2012, this surname appears to have been Sadlier.

As I scanned "Football, Frankston" on trove decade by decade, I couldn't help gawking at Frankston items unconnected to footy.

John Carr had a problem that I have rarely seen mentioned on trove but was part of the reason that Hugh Glass of Flemington (and a grantee at Rosebud) ended his life with an overdose. The problem was scab in sheep. On page 7 of the Argus of 15-9-1866, John Carr gave notice that his run, being a part of Mt Eliza, situate at Frankston, was affected by scab. This land was most likely in the parish of Frankston, that is north of Eramosa-Canadian Bay Rds. No doubt this run occupied most of the 3000 acres later proposed as the site for a new Melbourne cemetery.

Almost four years later, John Carr, was on another run, this time in the parish of Lang Warren and his sheep had again been affected by scab. (Argus, 17-8-1870, page 3.) On page 8 of the Argus on 12-4-1878, Carr's farm of 320 acres near the township at Frankston was offered for sale at 3 pounds per acre. Oh well, I thought, early squatter buys pre-emptive right and then leaves! Not finding much more on trove, I tried a straight google search. The Potts Family website soon convinced me that the Carr family was significant in Frankston's history.

This family was very religious and musical. It was also related to the Allchin family of Mornington. If I remember correctly, the Allchins lived at one of Mornington's historic houses, Sutton Grange, and were involved in the Mornington Football Club drowning tragedy. John Carr senior preached in Frankston as early as 1855 and was personally responsible for the building of the first Wesleyan Church in 1860.He used to travel on horseback to take services at Mentone, Cheltenham and Brighton. (It is likely that on many occasions he continued on to Melbourne to preach or lecture at the Temperance Hall or Gospel Hall- see the Argus 8-11-1873, page 1; 31-10-1874 page 1; 11-5-1875 page 8. The Chairman for John's lecture in 1873, entitled "Advance Victoria", was John Nimmo, who was prominent in politics and the temperance movement (Australian Dictionary of Biography.)

John Carr's great great grand daughter, Deborah Mary Collins was baptised in the Frankston Methodist Church in 1959. The Potts family history pages have much more information such as John's early land purchase, the musical expertise, and his daughter's near-death in a dam. It is claimed that Kars St was named after John Carr and was mis-spelt. No pioneer or prominent figure seems to have been named Kars, and it is possible that there is a link with the city and province of Kars in Turkey, besieged by the Russians in the Crimean War. Kars St was originally called Young St and the name was changed by the council without any consultation, according to an old Frankston resident in "Fishing, Sand and Village Days", a pre-1950 oral history.

Carr children were among the first pupils at the school started in 1855. John first lived on the foreshore near the hotel sites and then on Skye road in a house built of brown stone and bricks. John Carr used to produce lime from shells that he gathered at the foot of Oliver's Hill.(Frankston and Somerville Standard 22-2-1930, p.6, History of Frankston.)

(Argus, 25-3-1865 page 8.) FRANKSTON. A house and garden, fine situation, close to the jetty, Bay Frontage; also 9 acres of land near the above. Apply to Mr Yockins, Frankston.
The first three stores in Frankston were those of Mr Staples, Mrs Yockins and Mrs Spriggs. (Last source in Carr, 1930.)
Sarah, wife of Thomas C.J.Yockins and mother of Thomas C.Yockins of Yambuck, died on 20-1-1880 at Frankston, aged 66. (Illustrated Australian News, 16-2-1880, page 30.)
Mr H.C.Tocknell had been appointed registrar of births and deaths during the absence on leave of Mr.T.C.J.Yockins (South Bourke and Mornington Journal 28-7-1880 page 2.)
A writer wondered who would serve on the bench at the newly established Court of Petty Sessions in Frankston, pointing out that the nearest J.P., Captain Baxter, lived five miles away. Apparently there was a requisition, bearing a huge number of signatures, requesting the appointment of Messrs Cattanach and Yockins as local justices.Both men were highly respected in the town. (South Bourke and Mornington Standard 3-5-1882, page 3.)

by itellya Profile | Research | Contact | Subscribe | Block this user
on 2011-12-11 20:26:27

Itellya is researching local history on the Mornington Peninsula and is willing to help family historians with information about the area between Somerville and Blairgowrie. He has extensive information about Henry Gomm of Somerville, Joseph Porta (Victoria's first bellows manufacturer) and Captain Adams of Rosebud.

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by janilye on 2011-12-12 03:53:13

My daughter taught school there for several years and the locals call it 'Franga'
Interesting theory you have there itellya and it sounds plausible to me.
Don't forget parts of the film On The Beach starring Ave Gardner, Gregory Peck and Fred Astaire were filmed at Frankston Railway Station. The author of On The Beach lived there Nevil Shute lived in the Frankston area..

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by janilye on 2012-01-29 06:27:29

The earliest reference I can find is this land sale at Frankston 19 May 1854

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by itellya on 2012-02-01 09:28:35

The Frankston Standard of 5-10-1949 was a 60th anniversary special consisting of the paper consisting of 56 pages. On pages 13 and 16 was a summary of a history of Frankston written in 1929 by Donald Charlesworth of Frankston High School. Donald supported the theory of the town being named after Frank Stone.
As the history is so fascinating, I have changed the title of the journal to include EARLY HISTORY and you might like to detail other articles you find.Donald's history came from old people who had been part of Frankston's early days and has solved two mysteries for me.
1. How did current local cricket star, Henry Dolphin, get his exotic surname?
2. How did Henry Prosser's daughter (Isaac Sawyer's widow) come to marry Amise Renouf?

by itellya on 2012-02-01 09:32:23

My apologies re the first sentence. The first "consisting" should not be there.

by itellya on 2012-02-01 18:16:19

I just discovered some private messages that steve74 had sent me and somehow had finished up in spam. They detail three articles about Frankston's name and early history. All come from the Frankston and Somerville Standard.

26-11-1926.Janet Keen was aware that Mr Wells was the author of the "fix this text" letter. She stated that when she was at school a member of the Board of Advice* had stated that the town was named after lawyer Frank Stephens (whose claim was dismissed by Wells)but she believed that Charles Franks was the source of the name.
* A Board of Advice was like a school committee but had responsibility for a whole district rather than just one school. The failure to realise that distinction has led one local historian to refer to John Cain ( later of Rye requesting improvements at the Dromana school; Cain was of course at "Tyrone", Rye, but a member of the Board of Advice for the whole district!

29-10-1926. A family gathering had been held to celebrate the diamond wedding of Mr Fix this text and Mrs Charles Wells. (Obviously Janet was not the only one aware of the author's identity.) Much detail of the Wells family and Frankston's history is given in the article. The journalist summarised what had been said, and as anybody who has been interviewed would know, journalists often mix their facts, resulting in mistakes. Canvas Town was at Emerald Hill (South Melbourne), not Sandridge (Port Melbourne.)SEE SULLIVAN'S EARLY MELBOURNE. Petrie's Paddock is mentioned; Donald Charlesworth stated that Petrie had built the first Bay View hotel, operated it and then sold to Dolphin. This article mentioned Charles Wells' time at Dromana carting timber from Arthur's Seat.

5-11-1926. "Ancient History" states that he had his old school atlas and it showed the town with the spelling given as Frankstone, which tended to confirm Mr Wells' belief.

These are extracts from emails from Glenda Viner of the Frankston Historical Society in December 2011.
I'm glad you found some history on Mark Young...yes he did reside in the Carrum Swamp until his wife became ill and he was a Councillor in lots more!

I hope that sometime in the future that someone will find some interesting document about the naming of Frankston, and we can all shy in relief.
The Wedge Brothers were granted a pre-emptive right in Frankston on Pub corner. There was a dispute between them and James Davey who built a wattle and daub hut on what was said to have been Wedge land. They also had land at Seaford and Carrum Downs/Carrum.

Wedge Street named after the brothers ran from the round-a-bout in Playne Street up to what is now Council Buildings. Council changed the name to Young Street without any consultation.with locals.

No the Liardets did not have any pre-emptive right on Homestead ground, Frank just squatted and tried to grow wheat in 1843.that is stated on the maps in the Public Records.

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by itellya on 2012-02-02 06:52:04

Thanks Steve. What a well-written history! I reckon Henry's story should be a journal, rather than just a comment, because the surname list will then direct descendants of the families mentioned to the facinating information about their pioneering ancestors. I hope there's a lot more to come.
Just one point. It seemed as if Pope's and the Bayview were two different hotels but both were said to have become The Grand. Perhaps the name of the hotel (on the licence) was changed from Pope's to The Bayview. Liardet's hotel at Sandridge was called the Pier Hotel. Does Henry mention the Frankston Murder?

by janilye on 2012-02-02 11:46:26

I want to query a name you have there itellya. Samuel Packman? I have him in licenses as PACKHAM

by itellya on 2012-02-02 18:42:17

You're right of course. I rechecked the article (which was on page 6)and have amended the journal and surname list. Thanks. In defence of my boo boo, I can only plead a combination of illegible notes and refusal to follow Neil Mansfield's advice of last night at 10:46 p.m.- You amaze me - go to bed!

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by itellya on 2012-02-04 11:22:25

I've seen the Hastings case on trove; a good read. It's a pity they gave the Shannon-Moriarty case the same name; Tubbarubba would have been more appropriate.

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by itellya on 2012-03-13 11:15:00


by janilye on 2012-03-13 14:38:58

One of your Frankston SADLIERs could be John Cyril Crofton SADLIER born in East Melboutne in 1865 married Mary Elizabeth Renouf at Frankston in 1899 I believe he managed the Colonial Bank in Frankston.

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by itellya on 2013-04-08 04:14:04

This is part of Donald Charlwood's HISTORY OF FRANKSTON copied from comment 5 under my journal EARLY LANDOWNERS IN THE PARISHES OF MOOROODUC AND FRANKSTON. Donald favoured the FRANK STONE theory re Frankston's name and supplied convincing evidence.

EARLY PIONEERS. At about this time Mr. John Helder Wedge came from Mt. Cotteril, near Werribee, and settled in Frankston, where he kept sheep. Mr James Davey's first cottage, previously mentioned, he sold to Mr Frank Stevens, a well-known Melbourne solicitor, who came to Frankston in the 'fifties. It is the belief of some that Frankston was named after him, but it probably was named before his time. Mr. Stephens built "Jamalo," which he sold to his son-in-law, Dr. (afterwards Sir) John Madden. Others believe it to be named after Mr. Frank Liardet, but his descendants say it was named after Mr. Charles Franks, who kept an adjacent run to Mr. John Wedge at Mt. Cotteril and was killed by the blacks and buried in the old cemetery, where the Flagstaff gardens now stand. The name may have been suggested by John Wedge in memory of him. But what seems the right theory to the naming of Frankston is that it was named after Frank Stone. One of the very earliest buildings in Frankston was a small public house-some say it was owned by a man named Ewart who sold it to another man named Standring and that he sold it to a Mr. Stone. At this hotel Mr Stone's son was born and named Frank. The hotel then went by the name of Kananook, now changed its name to "Frank Stone's" after Stone's son and gradually the township grew up around it and took the name it now holds from the hotel in about 1851. Later the hotel was enlarged with two rooms from a Jersey Island guest house, which was brought out in two shipments in about 1862. Mr Amis Renouf, Mr. Frederick Renouf's father, travelled to Australia from Jersey Island on the boat which carried the second shipment of the old "Bay View." and he was greatly astonished on coming to Frankston to see the old Jersey Island guest house standing in the main street.

by itellya on 2014-10-27 02:52:42

An extensive history of the McComb family has today (27-10-2014) been posted in my new journal: McCOMBE ST, ROSEBUD DISRESPECTS PIONEERS OF FRANKSTON, VIC., AUST.

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