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Looking for Clarke of Victoria Australia

Query by NTuffill

Hi
I am looking for any information about my gt gt grandfather James Henry Clarke, he had a son born c1857 in Victoria, Australia
Information from his son Charles Edward Clarke's marriage certificate states that James Henry Clark was a Merchant's Clerk. That is all we know!

Charles Edward Clarke came to Cardiff and married Alice Smith

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by NTuffill Profile | Research | Contact | Subscribe | Block this user
on 2013-03-05 14:34:01

NTuffill has been a Family Tree Circles member since Mar 2013.

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by tonkin on 2013-03-05 21:54:38

Welcome NTuffill.

Unable to located a birth for your Charles Edward CLARKE in Victoria c1855 with a father named James Henry CLARKE, or CLARK.

If you can supply the name of Charles mother I will do another search.

Cheers.

by NTuffill on 2013-03-06 08:39:37

Hi
Sadly I don't have any information on the mother, I only found out the fathers name on the marriage certificate of Charles Edward Clarke to Alice Smith Word of mouth down through the family is that Charles Edward Clarke was born in Geelong, Victoria, Australia.
We worked out his birth year c1857 from census records, but of course these can easily be inaccurate!
Thank you for being so prompt
Regards
Nancy

by janilye on 2013-03-06 12:42:01

There were a lot of Clarke's in Victoria, this one is a possible
Australia Marriage Index, 1788-1950
about James Henry Clarke
Name: James Henry Clarke
Spouse Name: Ellen Wills
Marriage Place: Victoria
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration Year: 1856
Registration number: 4??

by NTuffill on 2013-03-06 13:34:31

Hi
Thank you very much for the above information, is it possible to buy a copy of the certificate of marriage? If so could you tell me how to go about it please. Again thank you for being so prompt as well. Brilliant service

by janilye on 2013-03-06 17:12:36

Apply Here with the information above.

by NTuffill on 2013-03-06 17:25:26

Hi Janilye
I tried what you said but it returned with no records found!
Regards
Nancy

by janilye on 2013-03-06 19:29:48

Hello Nancy, I see what you mean, probably because the Australian Index did not have a Registration Number attached. You are going to have to search the Victorian Indexes Here to get the number.

by janilye on 2013-03-06 19:41:37

Hello, I can't find it. Ask our member Tonkin in here, He has access to Victorian BD&M.

by tonkin on 2013-03-06 20:24:43

The year was 1865.

Groom: James Henry CLARKE.
Bride: Ellen WILLS.
Year married: 1865.
Place: Victoria.
Registration Number: 4237.

James Henry CLARKE and Ellen WILLS had seven children between 1867 and 1881.

If this James CLARKE is the father of Charles Edward CLARKE (born c1857) it means Charle's mother died and James remarried several years after Charles was born.

by NTuffill on 2013-03-07 04:43:45

Thank you for your responses and for the registration number.
Where can I find the names of their children please?
Is there any way to prove if these are the right people?
Regards
Nancy

by janilye on 2013-03-07 08:48:16

It wouldn't be the first time that Australian Index has been transcribed incorrectly, thanks Tonkin. Below are some children I found using Ellen Wills for the search.
Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922
about Elizabeth Clarke
Name: Elizabeth Clarke
Father's Name: James Henry Clarke
Mother's name: Ellen Wills
Birth Place: Sburst, Victoria
Registration Year: 1867
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 24280

Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922
about James Henry Clarke
Name: James Henry Clarke
Father's Name: James Henry Clarke
Mother's name: Ellen Wills
Birth Place: Sandhurst, Victoria
Registration Year: 1869
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 4938
..Australia Death Index, 1787-1985
about James Henry Clarke
Name: James Henry Clarke
Death Place: Victoria
Father's Name: James Henry
Mother's name: Ellen Wills
Registration Year: 1869
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 2693

Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922
about James William Clarke
Name: James William Clarke
Father's Name: James Henry Clarke
Mother's name: Ellen Wills
Birth Place: Sandhurst, Sandridge, Victoria
Registration Year: 1870
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 18830
Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922

about Arthur John Clarke
Name: Arthur John Clarke
Father's Name: James Henry Clarke
Mother's name: Ellen Wills
Birth Place: Richmond, Victoria
Registration Year: 1872
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 18886

Okay, Here's what I've found, regarding the CLARKE/WILLS Family.
As I could not find a Charles Edward CLARKE I don't believe it to be your family. So I don't recommend you waste your money on certificates pursuing this line.
James Henry CLARKE born in Nottingham, England in 1845. The son of Arthur John CLARKE 1818-1864 and Ann SMEDLEY 1817-1863.
James Henry married Ellen Mabel WILLS on the 13 November 1865 at Sandhurst, Victoria.
Ellen Mabel was born in Adelaide, South Australia
on the 7 August 1848 The daughter of William Helm WILLS 1820-1856 and Elizabeth STEVENS 1819 1886.

Sandhurst Advertiser 1865 later The Bendigo Advertiser
On the 13th November by Rev. James Nish at the Presbyterian Church, at the head of Wattle Street. Ellen WILLS, second daughter of Mr. William Helm WILLS, formerly of London, Sydney and Adelaide, recent resident of Sandhurst where his wife still resides, and James Henry CLARKE, butcher of Sandhurst, second surviving son of the late PGM Mr. Arthur John Clarke of the Shamrock Hotel, Epsom, formerly of Nottingham, England and Calais, France. The groom was born in Nottingham, England, the bride in Adelaide, Sth. Australia.
The children of this couple were:-
Elizabeth Clarke 1867 1942
James Henry Clarke 1869 1869
James William Clarke 1870
Arthur John Clarke 1872 1937
Ellen Emma Clarke 1874
Annie Clarke 1876 1951
Florence Mabel Clarke 1881
As I said there were a lot of James Henry Clarke's in Victoria. The only way to find the right one is to systematically go through all the marriages before 1857

by janilye on 2013-03-07 09:01:03

I found only 1 Charles Edward CLARKE born in Geelong, Victoria. In Newtown which is a suburb. However his father is given as Samuel.
Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922
about Charles Edward Clarke
Name: Charles Edward Clarke
Father's Name: Samuel James Clarke
Mother's name: Charlotte Reynolds
Birth Place: New Town, Victoria
Registration Year: 1858
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 1217

by tonkin on 2013-03-07 14:56:26

I have also been looking at this Charles Edward CLARKE born 1858 in Newtown (Geelong) for a few days and have a feeling it may be him, even if his father was named Samuel James CLARKE.

Samuel CLARKE, aged 25 years, and Charlotte REYNOLDS, aged 19 years, arrived in Victoria on the "Hibernia" in October 1852. With them was their son James, aged 01 year.

I can only find the births of two children for Samuel and Charlotte in Victoria.

Margaret Jane CLARKE.
Born: 1855 in Ashby. (Geelong)
Died: 1857 aged 16 months.

Charles Edward CLARKE.
Born: 1858 in Newtown. (Geelong}
Died: -

I'm still trying to find a death and marriage for Charles in Australia, but nothing has been located to date. Will do a few more searches today. It all takes time.

by tonkin on 2013-03-07 15:43:50

Forgot to mention that the Ellen WILLS married to James Henry CLARKE in 1865 was born in 1848. If Ellen was the mother of your Charles Edward CLARKE she would have been about 10 years old when Charles was born.

I agree with Janilye.
Don't waste your money on certificates for the CLARKE/WILLS lines.

Have a nice day.

by NTuffill on 2013-03-07 16:18:23

Thank you very much for your advice I am very grateful to both of you
Regards
Nancy

by janilye on 2013-03-07 20:19:05

We need more information. What year did Charles Edward Clarke go to Cardiff and what year did he marry? On the marriage certificate does it say if father is deceased or not. Do you have a death certificate does it say how long deceased in the country?
Were there syblings? what were his children's names? Sometimes it is easier to begin your search with the documents of a child and work back slowly from there.

by NTuffill on 2013-03-08 05:26:26

I don't know the year he arrived in Cardiff but he married Alice Smith b. 13 Mar 1862 in parish of St Woollas, Monmouthshire on October 30 1880.
On marriage cert it does not say father deceased.
It gives Charles's age as 23 and Alice Smith's age as 18.
I don't have a death certificate but he died in 1936 in Salford, Lancashire, England
I have no knowledge of any syblings.
Their childrens names were:
Francis Charles Clarke b. 1881 Newport, Monmouthshire
Mabel Clarke b.1883 Newport, Monmouthshire
Beatrice Clarke b. 26 Aug 1885 Newport, Monmouthshire
Oscar Clarke b. 1887 Newport, Monmouthsire
George Hubert Clarke b.6 May 1891 Newport, Monmouthsire
Olive Clarke b. 1892 Newport, Monmouthshire
Margaret Hilda Clarke b.15 Jun 1895 Newport, Monmouthshire

There is a story passed down from him I suppose, that he was going to France to study to be a priest, he fell ill, and that was how he ended up in Cardiff!

His wife went to Kansas to live with her sister, he stayed here in England working as a shipping clerk. We presume they separated but he stated 'married' on 1911 census form:
On the census form it states the years he has been married = 31
His age = 54 yrs
Children born alive = 8
Children still living = 5
Children died = 3

Regards Nancy

by NTuffill on 2013-03-08 05:30:06

Sorry I forgot to add Harold Clarke b.1889 Newport, Monmouthshire
Harold and Olive died very young
Oscar died at sea, when he was approx 20 I think

by tonkin on 2013-03-08 07:01:35

Thanks NTuffill.

No luck today with my searches for a marriage or death for Charles Edward CLARKE, son on Samuel and Charlotte, but will keep looking.

by NTuffill on 2013-03-12 12:46:34

Hi
I found a marriage for Samuel James Clarke and Charlotte Reynolds on 15 Mar 1852 in Blackburn, Lancashire, England
I found a birth for a Samuel James Clarke 4 Feb 1827 in Preston, Lancashire, England
Parents names = Thomas & Jane Clarke
Just wondering if these could be the right people & dates
Regards
Nancy

by NTuffill on 2013-03-12 13:27:04

Marriage: 15 Mar 1852 St Mary the Virgin, Blackburn, Lancashire, England
A bit more info I found through online parish clerk

Samuel James Clarke - full [age] Book-keeper Bachelor of Preston
Charlotte Reynolds - full [age] Spinster of Blackburn
Groom's Father: Thomas Clarke, Draper
Bride's Father: Peter Reynolds, Hatter
Witness: John Jacobs; John Pilkington
Married by Licence by: E. A. Lang
Register: Marriages 1851 - 1852, Page 84, Entry 168
Source: LDS Film 1278818

Regards Nancy

by tonkin on 2013-03-13 05:20:18

Looks like a match to me Nancy.

Well done.

by NTuffill on 2013-03-13 17:51:42

Thank you very much
I wonder if someone could find death dates for Samuel James Clarke, his wife Charlotte (nee Reynolds) and their son James Clarke born approx 1851/1852
Regards
Nancy

by NTuffill on 2013-03-19 08:50:29

I have a mystery with my Clarkes of Geelong Victoria Australia!
From information already supplied by Tonkin and Janilye we have worked out that
Samuel James Clarke born 1827 Preston Lancashire married Charlotte Reynolds in 1852 and came to Australia in October 1852 with a son James who was listed as being 1 year old. The then had two more children:
Margaret Jane CLARKE.
Born: 1855 in Ashby. (Geelong)
Died: 1857 aged 16 months.

Charles Edward CLARKE.
Born: 1858 in Newtown. (Geelong}
Died: - back in England in 1887 if this info is correct

He married again so I am wondering if his first wife Charlotte died? or they separated and then he went back to England? His second marriage was 6 May 1863 in Lambeth, London to a Mary Ann Morgan.

His son James lived for a while in Sydney Australia then returned to England. Charles Edward Clarke is not mentioned in England in his early years, so I am presuming Charlotte and Charles stayed in Australia? I can't find any journeys back to England for them
My Aunt says that Charles Edward Clarke went to Pau, France to study to be a priest, he became ill and decided to go back to Australia but was so ill on the ship that they pulled in at Cardiff (I think) and dropped him off, later he met and fell in love with Alice Smith and got married in 1880. I don't know how many years he was at Pau, France, so I am guessing he might have left Australia around about 1875?

If there are any deaths in Australia at all I think it would be of Charlotte Clarke as all the others seem to have come back to England
Thanks in anticipation
Nancy

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