Carmont :: Genealogy
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Journal by sheshe

i am searching for the name of the boat that Allan Carmont who married Susannah Bills, came to New Zealand on from Sydney.
Also, Susannahs sisters and brothers if she had any. Her parents were Frederick Bills and Mary ann Hayes.

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by sheshe Profile | Research | Contact | Subscribe | Block this user
on 2011-03-14 18:54:28

sheshe has been a Family Tree Circles member since Feb 2011. is researching the following names: BILLS, CARMONT.

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user edmondsallan deactivated
by allycat on 2011-03-14 21:54:37

Hmmm I did a search of these two websites: Jaunay's ANZ Passenger Lists and also had a look through Archway Archives of New Zealand - nil results.

Sometimes Death Certificates have more information, like how long in Colony etc. Birth, Death & Marriage - Historical Records of New Zealand shows death records for Allan CARMONT in 1922 New Zealand aged 80yrs, Registration No.1922/6210, and also what looks to be an infant son Allan Hayes CARMONT in 1868. Infant could possibly be determined from the 'NR' ... not recorded notation - stillborn.

PapersPast website shows a few records for a jockey named CARMONT.

by Aussie1947 on 2011-03-14 22:19:51


I see Allan Carmont in the 1870/71 NZ Census in Wellington along with John Carmont & Alexander Carmont. The 1851 Scotland Census has a John & Elizabeth Carmont residing at High steeet Delbeattie in Kirkcudbrightshire with a number of children including an Alexander 10, John 16 and Allan 9. If this is the family did Allan travel out to NZ with his brothers John & Alexander!


by allycat on 2011-03-14 22:22:58

The NSW Registrar of BDMs interestingly shows marriages between groom CARMONT and bride WILLS. It's amazing how many transcription errors one finds when researching the family tree.

user edmondsallan deactivated
by Bren7004 on 2011-03-28 03:18:28

Alan John Carmont is my husbands 2nd Great grand father. At this stage I havn't been able to find which ship he arrived on. His sister Agnes Carmont arrived in 1851, I have records of Margaret, John Alexander and Catherine all living in NZ. Alan married Susannah Bills in 1864, her family arrived on the Clifton in 1841 and she was born in Wellington in 1847. The Carmonts, Bills and Bevan families all settled in Otaki the Bevan family had flax mills in the area. Agnes and Margaret both married brothers by the name of Jenkins and there is information on the web, Agnes was very well known in the area for her nursing skills. I havn't found any info on the family in Scotland after the 1851 census which lists them as living in Dalbeattie Kirkcudbright, I wondered if the parents John Carmont and Elizabeth Caven came to NZ also but have so far not gound any info. Susannah parents were Fredrick Bills and Mary Ann Hayes Regards Brenda

by ngairedith on 2011-03-28 05:57:43

John CARMONT & Elizabeth CAVEN arrived into Wellington, via Sydney on the "Marchioness" in September 1857

by ngairedith on 2011-03-28 06:42:21

Frederick BILLS & Mary Ann HAYES

Frederick, with his wife Mary Ann and one year old son James arrived into Wellington on February 17th 1842 on board the CLIFTON having left London on the 2nd October 1841
He had listed himself as a `ropemaker and labourer

- their children:
1841 - 1911 James Richard Bills
- born in Middlesex
- married Louisa KEY 1864 in Thornndon Wellington
- had at least 4 children
- Louisa was a daughter of Thomas KEY & Jane BERRY

1843 - 1917 Mary Ann Bills
- born in Wellington
- married Frederick BRIGHT in 1863
- Frederick was born in Roxwell, Chelmsford Essex & died in Otaki

1846 - 1890 Susannah Bills
- born in Tinakori, Wellington
- married Allan John CARMONT 1864 St Mary's Cathedral Wellington
- Allan was one of at least 8 children of John CARMONT & Elizabeth CAVEN of New Abbey, Dumfries & Galloway
- Sussanah & Allan had 11 children (all can be seen at her link)

1848 - 1907 Frederick William Bills
- born n Wellington
- married Charlotte Eliza DOWSETT 1872
- daughter of Abraham DOSWETT & his 2nd wife, Eliza Susannah KING

1850 - 1897 Thomas Bills
- born in Wellington
- married Lucy SPACKMAN 1878 in Manawatu
- he died in Masterton & buried Archer St
- a son, Charles Leonard Bills moved to Perth WA and his ashes are scattered at Karrakatta

1855 - 1861 Sarah Cecilia Bills
- died aged 6 in Tinakori, Wellington

1861 - 1925 Florence Maud Bills
- born in Tinakori, Wellington
- married Wllliam Henry BALLINGER 1882 in Tinakori
- William was a Merchant
- they had 4 children from 1883 - 1888
- They divorced in 1901 and Florence remarried in 1903 to John Bert JONES in Petone

Frederick Bills accidently drowned in the Tinakori Creek when he was 51. His widow Mary Ann remarried in 1868 to Samuel SIGNAL

by Bren7004 on 2011-03-30 23:04:49

Many thanks for the info. Still havn't found the record of the Carmonts arriving in 1857 and have not found Marchioness on any arrival site. Please HELP. I have a Florence Maud Bills born 1866 to James Richard and Louisa where there two Thanks Brenda

by Aussie1947 on 2011-03-31 23:40:50

May not be relevant but.

The Sydney Morning Herald (NSW : 1842-1954). Monday 14 March 1853 on page 2 there is shipping intelligence which has the "Anna En Elize" arriving from London (left Oct 17th 1852) into Sydney on 13th March 1853 and on board were Mr & Mrs Carmont & child.


by Bren7004 on 2011-04-07 03:27:07

Have just received John Carmonts death certificate, he died 8 Dec 1859 and is buried at Mount St cemetery Wellington, Jane his daughter who died in 1855 is buried there also. Have found no record of his wife Elizabeth, did she arrive in NZ or die before in Sydney?

by sheshe on 2011-04-08 06:36:56

Bren thats great that you have found a John Carmont death cert, what is the married name of Jane who is buried there in 1855 i cant seem to find her, but found John.Does the death certificate say where he was born Bren. and who to in nz. What hospital of Wellington did he die.
This does give me a third John now:

John McCartney Carmont died 31 January 1915,unmarried,son of John and Elizabeth Carmont,formerly from Scotland, aged 62 yrs.(i have his death cert.) his sister Catherine Carmont who married Twice:Henry Meser\William Jessup, who also followed him out here,and dau. of John and Elizabeth Carmont, purchase his plot.Her address at the time was Post Office Courtney Place ?. He is buried Karori 63 s Roman Catholic.He died in a HOme for incurables in Buckle,Wellington founded by Mother Mary Aubert.(Some good reading there). He was born 1834 according to 1851 Scotish Census records. The electrol roll starts 1853 -1864 for him.

John Carmont (notes from his death cert.)of Belfast, Ireland,died 26 july 1948,Wairau Hospital, Blenheim. But he was from Grovetown new Zealand, a labourer. Father John Carmont. Mother not mentioned.Buried in Tua Waringa Cemetary,Blenheim. 36 yrs in NZ. Married at 45 yrs old in Nelson to Georgina Smith aged 59 yrs. Issue living male 26,Female 24,

John Carmont (this is your one now)8 dec 1859,buried Mount Cem Wellington, has a dau, Jane who died 1855,and buried there.

thats the three i have and none fit in with the father who was in Scotland in the 1851 Scotish census.It would make him over 100 yrs old because he was born in 1794.
I have a friend looking in Dalbeattie for John and Elizabeth.
Look forward to your response,
Regards Sheshe

by Bren7004 on 2011-04-16 05:27:42

Very pleased to hear from you, I tried to email you earlier as I was aware you were researching the Carmonts. The death certificate I have of John Carmont is I think the John from Dalbeatie in Scotland. He died in 1859 and was 67 at the time which is correct if he was born in 1792-94. The death certificate has hardly any info except to say he died of consumption in Wellington and has no record of mother, father or next of kin, a great disappointment as I thought I finally had a break through.
The John Carmont you mention who died in 1948 I don't think is any relation as he was born in Ireland and they were two families of Carmonts.
Jane Caven Carmont who died in 1855 is the unmarried daughter of John and Elizabeth. I have never found any notes of how John and Elizabeth came to NZ although have two different versions, One they came on the Marchioness in 1857 and another on the Anne En Elize in 1852, both arriving in Wellington via Sydney. I am still trying to unravel the mystery of where Elizabeth Carmont nee Caven is as have not found any record of her being in NZ at all. Keep in touch Regards Brenda

by sheshe on 2011-04-16 18:34:00

Thanks Bren, does the death cert. say Jane's middle name is Caven, and that she was unmarried also? This certainly fits her b.abt.1832 Scotland , d.1855 NZ, this narrows down the year from the 1851 census in Scotland, and we know for sure they were there. Would have made her 23 yrs old when she died therabouts.
Does the death cert. not even give a ministers name or a signature of informant etc.

Yes 1792 + 67=1859 for John.

The Belfast John doesnt fit.

Will have a look at those two ships again, but this time different yrs now. Some of them dont have passenger lists.
Sheena Vallett

by aliceinnz on 2011-05-06 23:57:10

I have just returned from Karori Cemetery where I was able to photograph John Carmont's (Jnr) unmarked grave, and Catherine Carmont's grave. I have loaded on to here (hope the link works):
I am a descendant of Catherine's.

by ngairedith on 2011-05-07 00:43:43

hi alice,

the links only take you to the '14 day free trial' page

by Bren7004 on 2011-05-07 23:12:27

Hi Ngaire
Note you you say John and Elizabeth Carmont arrived NZ via Sydney on the Marchioness in 1857..... Could you please give me more info. Jane Caven died in Wellington in 1855 so dates don't fit Brenda

by KiwiChelle on 2017-05-13 20:38:36

I am a 3rd great grandchild of John Carmont and Elizabeth Caven...through their son, Allan John Carmont who married Sussannah Bills, then their daughter Mary Agnes (my great grandmother) who married George Bevan (my great grandfather through his daughter Elva Marion who married by grandfather Henry Hugh Dysart).Has anyone yet found out when exactly, and what ship, John and Elizabeth and their family of about 8 (cos Agnes had already emigrated) arrived in NZ. Can't find anything - the 'Anne En Elize' arriving in Sydnay only states a Mr & Mrs Carmont and one child...cannot be that!
The 'Marchioness' only states at J Carmont aged 22 - cannot be that either!

So they must have arrived sometime between the Scottish census of 1851 and their daughter's, Jane Caven Carmont, death in Wellington in 1855.

by Sheena53 on 2018-05-11 02:49:01

The Mount Cemetery in Wellington records Jane Caven Carmont's birth as 1833 and death is 15 July 1855, aged 21-22 yrs old at death
so if they came out on the ship Anne en Elize in 1852 she would haave been about 18-19,
would they have recorded 18-19 as a child in those days?

Regards sheshe

by Sheena53 on 2018-05-11 03:00:32

Hi KiwiChelle
i also come down thru Allan John Carmont, and i am trying to put together the Bills and the Carmont family, i have a cousing who has just come back from scotland on all the information i had found on the carmonts in scotland and they went to High steeet Delbeattie in Kirkcudbrightshire and they discovered the butcher shop is still there and is still a butcher shop, they showed Rick and Lyn the upstairs where they all lived, if you want some info just say so, there are more photos apparently but they are on holiday at the moment, but cant wait to see what they have, i asked them to go to the Delbeattie Library which they did and the man did some searching and presented them with two books so cant wait to see them, its so nice to see everything fall into place after so many years of research
the ship for John and Elizabeth is still a mystery though,
regards sheshe

by Sheena53 on 2018-05-11 03:07:20

i forgot to add if you go onto google maps and login 12 High Street Delbeattie uk, you can see the butcher shop that John Carmont had and it now belongs to the Neilson brothers, John also managed a hotel but cant remember the name of it off hand, im in Otaki at the moment, researching Charles Joseph Leonard Carmont who was a horse trainer down here but i was interested in the places he lived, he is my GG Grandfather
regards Sheshe

by KiwiChelle on 2019-08-05 15:37:53

Is the ship that John and Elizabeth arrived in NZ on still a mystery?
Regards Michelle

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