What is the occupation of the father on both certificates ?

Thomas Walter Mitchell (marriage cert) is a Labourer at possibly 56 Melbourne Rd Chatham.
George Mitchell (on birth certificate) was a house painter. I spent 5 or 6 hours after my post and are strongly of the belief that the marriage certificate has the mistake on it.

George Thomas Mitchell b 10 Jan 1884 became a Ships cook in the RN and died of TB on 5 Feb 1922 at 83 Victoria Rd Charlton. I have found a marriage between Bridget McGoveran + George Mitchell in Wigton occurring before 1881 Census. This appears on the surface to be the correct union

This might help with Bridgets birth place

1891 England Census about George F Mitchell
Name: George F Mitchell
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation: Grandson
Mother's name: Bridget McGovern
Gender: Male
Where born: Wigton, Cumberland, England
Civil Parish: Wigton cum Woodside
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: Wigton
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary McGovern 57 born Ireland
John McGovern 23, born Wigton Cumberland
Bridget McGovern 30,Masweltone Scotland (image reads surname Mitchell)
Frank Mitchell 10, born Wigton Cumberland
George F Mitchell 4, born Wigton Cumberland (looks like T not F)
John Graham 34, Border
Margret Graham 28, Border
Christina Mitchell 10/12 born Wigton Cumberland
William Wright 28 border

It says Bridgets occupation is weaver and the 1901 Census also has Weaver, she is unmarried but not widowed still living with her mother & brother


1901 England Census about George T Mitchell
Name: George T Mitchell
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Grandson
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Wigton, Cumberland, England
Civil Parish: Wigton
Ecclesiastical parish: Wigton St Mary
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary McGivern 66 (reads McGovern)
Bridget Mitchell 40, b Scotland
John McGivern 30
Frank Mitchell 20
George T Mitchell 14
Christina Mitchell 10
Mary Mitchell 3
James Mitchell 7/12
Thomas Carr 50

all children born, Wigton Cumberland, also has George T birth as 1887


and I think I'm about to throw another spanner in the works

Births Dec 1886
Mitchell George Thomas Wigton 10b 527

and the one you have

Births Mar 1884
Mitchell George Thomas Wigton 10b 520

and then this which might explain the second George Thomas b1886

Deaths Jun 1885
MITCHELL George Thomas 1 Wigton 10b 369

so another spanner, sorry.

It might pay to get a copy of Birth 1886 and Death 1885 and compare details to the birth for George 1884 that you have. it might also be worth having a look at some of the other childrens birth certificates to check fathers name and details.

thank you asheppard

I am looking after our 2 young grandchildren today. won't be able to have good look for another 8 hours. will get back to you.
Brian Mitchell (grandson of George Thomas Mitchell)

My father was orphaned before he was 3 with his father dying Feb 1922 and his mother dying Jan 1922 and his twin brother dying in 1920 all from TB. Unfortunately Dad has passed away 10 years ago so i can't talk to him.

Birth for Frank Mitchell

Births Mar 1881
MITCHELL Francis Wigton 10b 506

1911 Census for Bridget

Name: George Thamas Mitchell
Age in 1911: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Wigton, Cumberland, England
Civil Parish: Wigton
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England
Street address: Brookside Wigton Cumberland
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Labour
Registration district: Wigton
Household Members:
Name Age
Bridget Mitchell 50
Francis Mitchell 30
George Thamas Mitchell 25
Christian Mitchell 21
Mary Mitchell 13
James Mitchell 11

Details,
Bridget, married 32 years 11 children, 5 living 6 deceased, born Wigton Cumberland? Occ: Weaver-employer

Francis, occ: laborer
George Thomas Occ; laboorer
Christian Occ; servant
Mary & James at school children

all the ages are listed in one column under female, if the number of children is correct there are quite a few to find.

I think I may have found ten of the children all in Wigton

Mar 1881 Francis
Mar 1884 George Thomas died Jun 1885
Dec 1886 George Thomas
Jun 1889 John died Jun 1889
Sep 1890 Christina
Dec 1894 John & Mary (twins) both died Sep 1895
Dec 1897 Mary
Sep 1900 James
Jun 1903 Florence died Jun 1903

There are three possible for the other child
Dec 1875 Margaret Mayo died Mar 1880

another set of twins same/similar names as other children
Sep 1879 Christina & Mary Ann both died Dec 1879

death of Bridget this may give you information on the husband Mitchell
Deaths Sep 1918
Mitchell Bridget 58 Wigton 10b 699

Hello again asheppard
thank you for all your time and effort but i think i have led you up the garden path. I said that George Thomas Mitchell had different father's names on the 2 certificates i have - birth and marriage. I believe that the birth certificate is of the wrong George Thomas Mitchell (Wigton) Having spoken to my sister in law who did the original research back in 1989 has told me that my father (son of GTM) was brought up by Frances Sellars (nee Mitchell) As GTM of Wigton did not have a sister called Frances i have found a George Thomas Mitchell born in Greenwich 1882 i think. His father was Thomas Walter Mitchell who married a Eliza Harriet Welch and this GTM had a sister called Frances. It looks like i will have to spend $50 to get a copy of his birth certificate to confirm my theory. If you have the time to follow up my theory i would appreciate it

regards
Brian Mitchell (son of Walter David Mitchell)

To further enhance my theory my family (both mum and Dad) come from SE / NE London I believe Croydon,Woolwich and Greenwich are not too far apart. Wigton, Cumberland is as far as you can get from London. Frances Sellars (nee Mitchell) married a William Frederick Sellars in 1912 and they had a son William T G Sellars born in 1913. The father died in WW1 and the son died in WW2. This probably gave her reason to bring up her brother's son - my father in 1922. Would it be better to pay for Frances's birth certificate or George Thomas's bc. Unfortunately it will take 6 weeks to get the info and $100 but i want to know for sure
once again thank you

Brian M (born Lewisham SE London - emigrated to Australia at age of 2)

No problem I think I found him in 1911 Census


1911 England Census about George Mitchell
Name: George Mitchell
Age in 1911: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: Greenwich
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 152 Woolwich Rd, East Greenwich S E
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: S. COOK 1ST CLASS R C (Royal Navy)
Registration district: Greenwich
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Mitchell 53, head, widow Coal Porter b Greenwich
George Mitchell 28, son,
Frances Mitchell 25, daug, keeps house for father b Greenwich
George Lacre 13, grandson, b Sheerness
Harold Lacre 8, grandson, b Deptford
Leddy Lacre 6, grandson, b Sheerness
William Friend 21, nephew, b Greenwich
George Friend 16, nephew, b Greenwich
Katherine Friend 20, neice, b Greenwich

Details,
crossed out, married 33 years, 5 children, 2 living, 3 deceased

this looks like it could be his christening

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 about George Thomas Mitchell
Name: George Thomas Mitchell
Baptism Date: 27 Dec 1882
Baptism Place: Christ Church, Greenwich, Kent, England
Father: Thomas Walter Mitchell
Mother: Eliza Harriet Mitchell
FHL Film Number: 384887
Reference ID: v 3 p 121

1881 England Census about Thomas Mitchell
Name: Thomas Mitchell
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Eliza Mitchell
Gender: Male
Where born: Greenwich
Civil Parish: Greenwich
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 20 Bridge St
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Stoker Gas House
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Mitchell 24
Eliza Mitchell 20,wife, b Blackheath
Harriett Mitchell 1, daug, b Greenwich

Births Jun 1880
MITCHELL Harriet Mary A Greenwich 1d 1060

The only birth I could find for George Thomas in Greenwich was this one

Births Mar 1883
Mitchell George Thomas Greenwich 1d 1121

or these two in Kent

Births Sep 1885
Mitchell George Croydon 2a 223

Births Dec 1885
Mitchell George Thomas C Woolwich 1d 1206


marriage for Thomas & Eliza

Marriages Dec 1879
MITCHELL Thomas Walter Greenwich 1d 1288
WELCH Eliza Harriet Greenwich 1d 1288

possibly Eliza's death
Deaths Jun 1896
Mitchell Eliza Harriet 35 Greenwich 1d 639

Couldn't find anything for grandchildren George, Harold, Teddy (Possibly Edward) in 1911 census, but if only two of Thomas' children are living then the three boys mother must be a daughter of Thomas and sister to George & Frances.

Couldn't find a birth for the boys or marriage for a Lacre to Mitchell possibilities for the surname spelling could be anything.


Thomas Mitchell 1901 Census

1901 England Census about Thomas Mitchell
Name: Thomas Mitchell
Age: 43
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Kent, England
Civil Parish: Greenwich
Address: 18 Glenister Road?
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Mitchell 43, head, widow, Coal Worker
Frances Mitchell 15, daug,
Thomas Mitchell 11, son, b Greenwich
Jesse Jones 22, nephew

possible birth for Thomas
Births Mar 1890
Mitchell Thomas Walter Greenwich 1d 1156

and his death
Deaths Sep 1906
Mitchell Thomas Walter 16 Greenwich 1d 608


Couldn't find Mitchell family in 1891 Census

Look what I stumbled across


England, Select Marriages, 1538?1973 about Harriet Mary Mitchell
Name: Harriet Mary Mitchell
Gender: Female
Age: 20
Birth Date: 1880
Marriage Date: 25 Dec 1900
Marriage Place: Christ Church, Greenwich, Kent, England
Father: Thomas Walter Mitchell
Spouse: Edwin Thomas Lacre
FHL Film Number: 355628
Reference ID: v 17 p 169

Marriages Dec 1900
Mitchell Harriet Mary Greenwich 1d 1799
Sacre Edwin Thomas Greenwich 1d 1799

Births Sep 1902
Sacre Harold Thomas G Greenwich 1d 1039

Births Dec 1905*
Sacre Edwi Richard Woolwich 1d 1188

*Transcript error on name, original image reads Edwin (change pending)


Harriet's Death

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Harriett Mary Sacre
Name: Harriett Mary Sacre
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Registration Year: 1909
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 29
Registration district: Greenwich
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 447

This could be a possible birth for George, the 1911 Census could read 3 or 13, couldn't find anything under Mitchell or Scare around 1898 but found this one

Births Jun 1908
Sacre George Thomas W Sheppey 2a 1084

Absolutely brilliant asheppard (I would appreciate it if you could give me your name and email address - but also understand if you wish to remain anonymous)
I found 3/4 of what you have but you have manged the extra info that i cannot get. e.g GTM Greenwich i can only get his baptism dat 27 Dec 1882 and the church but i do not get the parent's names which prove beyond doubt that he is the man. My Dad's Aunt was a Frances Eliza Mitchell (married William Frederick Sellars) died as a 93 year old in 1978. My 88 year old mum remembers her as a bitter woman and she met her in 1973. The death of Eliza Harriet in 1896 fits in perfectly.
I am over the moon and without your help would still be floundering. I also understand your desire to help others as i have spent the last 10 years putting all of Tasmanian Cricket Association's cricket matches (1866 - 2014) onto a cricket database - I am now the guru of Tasmanin Club cricket in Hobart.

I will now try and find the extras that you did and also search for an unknown sister of my dad (born between 1915 and 1919) and it would be somewhere in NE London (Woolwich,Greenwich,Barnet,Charlton). My dad was born in district of Barnet

1 last question
I am using a $216 Ancestry Heritage Annual subscription. Are you using a different site to get this extra info that i can't find - e.g parent's names on Dec 27 1882 Baptism

Thank you very much
from Kingston Tasmania
Brian Mitchell

You are doing wonders

My mum says that Frances Eliza Sellars brought up my Dad Walter David Mitchell (Born 26-6-1919 as a twin to George Douglas) He was almost 3 when his Aunt FES looked after him along with a child called George age about 8 in 1922 who was Dad's cousin. If George was Harriet's son he would have been 13 in 1922. My dad left her home in 1934c and joined the Army. He did not have a happy childhood for obvious reasons.If only i could talk to my father.

Great work
Brian M

Hello again (I am assuming you are asleep at this time)

It is definitely Sacre and not Lacre as in 1911 Census

Harriett Mary M wed Edwin hom Sacre on Dec 25 1900 (4th instance of xmas day wedd in immed fam)
sons
Harold TG Sacre born 21 Aug 1902 died Mar 1982 Bromley Herts
Edwin Walter Sacre born 12 Nov 1904 died Jun 1970 Ashford,Kent,Eng
Albert Edward Sacre 10 Jun 1898 (Bap) died melb Australia

Would you believe he emigrated on 25/1/1952 on the RS Chitral (the exact sailing that my parents and I came to Australia on)

Brian M

I am having a 3 day break to have a rest and do my tax return - cheers